Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
404 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In my EV6 I've had a couple of occasions recently where I have drained the 12V battery and been unable to start the car.

The first was very much my fault. On a rainy day I sat in the car with my daughter with just "the ignition" on and we used the radio and heater and this drained the battery. The AA used a battery based jump starter and advised me that if you keep the car in "ready mode" it should not drain the 12V battery.

Today a had the same 12V battery low message and was unable to start the EV6 and again had to resort to the AA. My daughter had only sat in the car for a very short time without being in "ready mode". The AA recommended I get Kia to check on the 12V battery health (which I will do) as such a short period of use should not have drained the batter as it did. But he also recommended a NOCO for portable boosters.

I note that NOCO do a " NOCO Boost Sport GB20 500A" which is around £80 claims to "Start Dead Batteries - Safely jump start a dead battery in seconds with this compact, yet powerful, 400-amp portable lithium car battery jump starter pack - up to 20 jump starts on a single charge - and rated for gasoline engines up to 4 liters.". It's really small and looks like it would fit in the Froot (Item dimensions L x W x H 43 x 81 x 196 millimetres).

Does anyone know if such a solution is EV suitable. The Amazon Q&A states

Q: I see this is not suitable for Diesel engines. Is there any reason why it might not be suitable with the 12v battery of an all electric car?
A: Yes, it will work with EV. All it has to do is raise voltage when your 12v battery is dead to activate contactor dc-dc converter. Then traction battery can keep the car alive.

Guitar accessory Gadget Audio equipment Font Musical instrument accessory



Halfords Links
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
I note that NOCO do a " NOCO Boost Sport GB20 500A" which is around £80 claims to "Start Dead Batteries - Safely jump start a dead battery in seconds with this compact, yet powerful, 400-amp portable lithium car battery jump starter pack - up to 20 jump starts on a single charge - and rated for gasoline engines up to 4 liters.". It's really small and looks like it would fit in the Froot (Item dimensions L x W x H 43 x 81 x 196 millimetres).

Does anyone know if such a solution is EV suitable. The Amazon Q&A states
I have a Noco GB40 and a GB50, one for each car and have put the hardwire kit direct to the 12V battery so it is a simple plug in job to use.

So far I haven't needed either of them as I am careful to switch the car into ready mode and also I have a BM2 battery monitor and check it every now and then. The 12V does sometimes drop below 12V, but the car seems to do a good job of topping it up at random times.

I'm sure that there will be a time when the 12V battery decides that it has had enough and will fail, but that's what the Noco is for.

I have used the GB50 to start a couple of diesel cars/vans and it has worked surprisingly well.

You wouldn't need bigger than a GB20 for and EV unless you want to help out an ICE in distress.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WarwickBoy

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I have the NOCO GB40 1000amp model but bought it when I had a 3 litre diesel car. Never used it in anger on any car but it was very useful to charge up our mobile phones when we had a 4 day power cut earlier in the year.
 

·
Registered
Hyundai Ioniq 28
Joined
·
10,536 Posts
If you search the handy dandy 'Search Community' box at the heading for 12v battery problems you will find dozens of threads on this subject. Key is to keep a careful watch on the health of the 12v DC battery and never allow it to become discharged to a low level. As you have discovered, sitting in an EV with it not set for running will quickly cause problems. And even if you get away with once or twice it will have damaged the battery so much that it will fail very soon.

Many years ago I decided to be proactive and bought a smart charger that is used about once a month whether it seems to need it or not. A modern smart charger, rather than your Dad's large dumb charger, goes through a diagnostic programme first and will de-sulfide, and condition a damaged battery back to health, and then go through a phased/pulsed charge programme designed to bring it back to a full charge without any damage through overheat or overcharge.

Such a preventative maintenance programme should avoid any need for an emergency booster - unless driver error such as lights left on or parking with radio and heater on for extended periods without being in drive mode or a similar appropriate setting that keeps the DC to DC charger alive.

By all means buy a booster for belt n braces but I have always found that I prefer not to be locked out or faced with an unresponsive car in the first place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
The stupid problem that I have is that I do not have a 13A socket anywhere near the car, so it is very awkward to use a maintenance charger.

Suppose I could always use the V2L to run the charger 🤣 (Only joking)
Makes it worse that I have an EVSE sitting right next to the car.

Probably will end up getting a 12V charger, probably a Noco, so that it will just plug straight into the cable connected to the battery for the boost pack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
829 Posts
Have bought the same NOCO booster but not needed it as yet for my Ioniq 5 P45 which is now 14 months old. It is certainly overkill for an EV but as I still have 2 x petrol cars (which are used very very rarely ) thought I would cover all bases. Would be happy to help out neighbours as well, as pretty much plug and play and faster than calling out the AA or RAC etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
I used a Noco GB20 to jump the 12v system to life in an Ioniq 38 after it died completely (I suspect something locked up after a failed unlock attempt from bluelink and caused the infotainment system to get stuck on). Apart from the alarm going off right in my ear as soon as the car received power it worked fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
There are a couple on my Amazon Wishlist. These are now discounted with the November BlackFriday reductions:

£50.20 Yard Force 12V Cordless Jump Starter Pack LED Lamp Torch Work Light, Power Bank - LX JS12
£66.98 GOOLOO Car Jump Starter Power Pack 1200A Peak 18000mAh

The Gooloo one is the better option as that has a "boost" button on the dongle which outputs 12volts even if the lead acid battery is completely removed or 0volts. It's worth checking if the NOCO has this feature. Some units will only operate if they measure a minimum voltage on the battery being jumped.
 

·
Registered
BMW 300e 2020 model and Leaf 40kW 2019 model
Joined
·
400 Posts
In my EV6 I've had a couple of occasions recently where I have drained the 12V battery and been unable to start the car.

The first was very much my fault. On a rainy day I sat in the car with my daughter with just "the ignition" on and we used the radio and heater and this drained the battery. The AA used a battery based jump starter and advised me that if you keep the car in "ready mode" it should not drain the 12V battery.

Today a had the same 12V battery low message and was unable to start the EV6 and again had to resort to the AA. My daughter had only sat in the car for a very short time without being in "ready mode". The AA recommended I get Kia to check on the 12V battery health (which I will do) as such a short period of use should not have drained the batter as it did. But he also recommended a NOCO for portable boosters.

I note that NOCO do a " NOCO Boost Sport GB20 500A" which is around £80 claims to "Start Dead Batteries - Safely jump start a dead battery in seconds with this compact, yet powerful, 400-amp portable lithium car battery jump starter pack - up to 20 jump starts on a single charge - and rated for gasoline engines up to 4 liters.". It's really small and looks like it would fit in the Froot (Item dimensions L x W x H 43 x 81 x 196 millimetres).

Does anyone know if such a solution is EV suitable. The Amazon Q&A states

Q: I see this is not suitable for Diesel engines. Is there any reason why it might not be suitable with the 12v battery of an all electric car?
A: Yes, it will work with EV. All it has to do is raise voltage when your 12v battery is dead to activate contactor dc-dc converter. Then traction battery can keep the car alive.

View attachment 169399


Halfords Links
...but you have a booster pack in the EV6 already. Use the V2D (or is it called V2L in English...?) and connect a charger to that if you need to charge the 12V battery.
 

·
Registered
BMW 300e 2020 model and Leaf 40kW 2019 model
Joined
·
400 Posts
The stupid problem that I have is that I do not have a 13A socket anywhere near the car, so it is very awkward to use a maintenance charger.

Suppose I could always use the V2L to run the charger 🤣 (Only joking)
Makes it worse that I have an EVSE sitting right next to the car.

Probably will end up getting a 12V charger, probably a Noco, so that it will just plug straight into the cable connected to the battery for the boost pack.
OK, stupid question, but why wouldn't you use the V2D or V2L as you call it. That's exactly what it is designed for.



Just replace the bike charger with a 12V charger.
 

·
Registered
Nissan e-NV200 Combi 40 kWh
Joined
·
371 Posts
OK, stupid question, but why wouldn't you use the V2D or V2L as you call it. That's exactly what it is designed for.



Just replace the bike charger with a 12V charger.
I suspect that wouldn't work if the car's 12V battery were too low to "start" the car. For very good safety reasons, the big traction battery is switched off in several places until the 12V-powered electronics sends 12V power to the contactors to connect up the big battery. No 12V, no 400V either.

(I recognise the safety pattern as similar to that of electric locomotives back to the 1950s. When "parked" the pantograph to the 25,000 volt overhead power is lowered, much like isolating the traction battery of a battery car, and for much the same reasons. To start, the pantograph has to be raised, which needs air pressure in its actuators, and to get air pressure from a completely cold start, there's a battery-powered pump. That needs battery power for several minutes. My experience isn't vast - I had a summer job working on t' railway in 1976, rebuilding interlocks for locomotives being serviced.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
I suspect that wouldn't work if the car's 12V battery were too low to "start" the car. For very good safety reasons, the big traction battery is switched off in several places until the 12V-powered electronics sends 12V power to the contactors to connect up the big battery. No 12V, no 400V either.

(I recognise the safety pattern as similar to that of electric locomotives back to the 1950s. When "parked" the pantograph to the 25,000 volt overhead power is lowered, much like isolating the traction battery of a battery car, and for much the same reasons. To start, the pantograph has to be raised, which needs air pressure in its actuators, and to get air pressure from a completely cold start, there's a battery-powered pump. That needs battery power for several minutes. My experience isn't vast - I had a summer job working on t' railway in 1976, rebuilding interlocks for locomotives being serviced.)
Also once the the traction battery is connected won't the on-board 12v charging circuit be activated anyway?
 

·
Registered
BMW 300e 2020 model and Leaf 40kW 2019 model
Joined
·
400 Posts
I suspect that wouldn't work if the car's 12V battery were too low to "start" the car. For very good safety reasons, the big traction battery is switched off in several places until the 12V-powered electronics sends 12V power to the contactors to connect up the big battery. No 12V, no 400V either.

(I recognise the safety pattern as similar to that of electric locomotives back to the 1950s. When "parked" the pantograph to the 25,000 volt overhead power is lowered, much like isolating the traction battery of a battery car, and for much the same reasons. To start, the pantograph has to be raised, which needs air pressure in its actuators, and to get air pressure from a completely cold start, there's a battery-powered pump. That needs battery power for several minutes. My experience isn't vast - I had a summer job working on t' railway in 1976, rebuilding interlocks for locomotives being serviced.)
I am not talking about directly using the high voltage battery, but using the V2L connector, plug in a 12V charger or a booster to that, and use that to start the car. That is a possibility for the EV6 and the Niro EV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
I am not talking about directly using the high voltage battery, but using the V2L connector, plug in a 12V charger or a booster to that, and use that to start the car. That is a possibility for the EV6 and the Niro EV.
The V2L will not work unless the 12V battery has enough power as it will not be able to activate the relays for the HV battery.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jock55

·
Registered
BMW 300e 2020 model and Leaf 40kW 2019 model
Joined
·
400 Posts
Also once the the traction battery is connected won't the on-board 12v charging circuit be activated anyway?
...but we are talking about a discharged 12V battery which needs a boost to start the car. Without the 12V battery your car is not going anywhere, even if your high voltage battery is at 100%. The EV6 has a nice feature, it can give you 3.6kW 230VAC.

"Further enhancing usability, the EV6 GT’s Integrated Charging Control Unit (ICCU) features a Vehicle-to-Device (V2D) function, which is capable of discharging energy from the vehicle’s battery. The V2D function can supply up to 3.6kW of power and is capable, as an example, of operating a 55-inch television and air conditioner simultaneously for more than 24 hours. The system is also able to charge another EV, if needed."

Kia EV6 GT: a new high-performance benchmark in the crossover segment

If the system is able to charge another EV then it surely is able to charge it's own 12V battery or boost it to start. You don't need another battery or mains outside your car to do that.
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top