[Paul_Moxhay]

Firstly I am 100% certain that OLEV are fully aware of what is happening. They are not idiots there... but they are idiotic in how they spend our tax money without any concern for accountability or getting value for money for the public. They seem to have no control of the assets the grants fund. It should be criminal.

Secondly, the EVDA is at such an early stage that they are not up to representing anyone on anything just yet. Neither are they showing any signs that they ever will be with the current set up. They don't represent me nor the vast majority of EV drivers and until they have a significant membership and are actually active, instead of just being dormant, then I suggest we look else where for our representation.

 

[Matt Beard]

<EVDA-UK Hat On>
We are working on something... Watch this space.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

EVDA can only represent its members. It can never and must never, under any circumstances, put itself forward as representing EV drivers as a whole. It does not and never will.

Matt knows my views on this...

EVDA, in its current form, has no purchase in the EV arena and will never have in my opinion until it gets its act together and becomes a professional organisation instead of an EV drivers club and talking shop. I see no value of being a member of EVDA at the moment and I hope that they don't get involved in these kinds of issues until they have the time and money to do it properly. If anyone knows anything about dealing with government and councils... doing things in a way that doesn't mesh with how they work is worse than doing nothing at all. If it isn't tackled with authority from the start then we will ruin any possibility of being taken seriously in the future.

It needs much more than a few drivers forming a club. It needs professional, active lobbying... high profile visibility, a structured PR and marketing effort, visibility at shows, conferences and workshops throughout the industry... and all BEFORE it stands any chance of being taken at all seriously by any othe organisations that matter.

We can't just cobble together something reactively when issues arise. That is just whinging! It needs a permanent and professional presence in the EV world so its profile can be built and so its credibility for EV driver representation can grow.

As things stand I do not see any good for EV drivers on the whole coming from the involvement of the EVDA as it currently stands. I hope that they do not get involved as some kind of defacto representative of EV drivers which they are most certainly not and I will be lobbying against EVDA if it tries to suggest that it is anything more than it actually is.

I am in favour of a professionally run EVDA that has built up a reputation in the industry through its activities and involvement from day to day... but I am very much against an EVDA plays at it like it is. That will do more harm than good IMO and it could seriously damage any chance of us being taken seriously in the future.

Matt, you say you are working on it... sorry, but I see nothing happening and so far EVDA has done nothing visible. How can anyone, least of all OLEV et al, give the EVDA any credibility?

If you want to be taken seriously by OLEV and the other big players then you must establish your credentials publically FIRST... loud and clear! So far EVDA has a web site that shows little activity, it has meetings in private and it is not getting itself involved openly and visibly. It doesn't make regular public announcements, it isn't regularly cropping up on other web sites and getting in front of people's noses so people can associate EVDA with EV driver issues, it isn't regularly publishing articles explaining the attitudes that it represents and the values that are important to its members and so the the industry can see how it is aligned. All your private talk amounts to nothing of value.

It is no good just saying ... your working on it... what good is that?

 

[jontracey]

Paul you have made your position on EVDA very clear, now I have no axe to grind either way but i believe that throwing criticism from the sidelines wont help anyone.

I would say either get in and support Matt and EVDA or step away and leave them to get on with it.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Sorry Jon I totally disagree. If you believe in something enough then it is worth fighting for. I believe in the EVDA but I don't believe that they are doing any one of us any favours going about it the way they are... or are not as they aren't doing anything at all that is of benefit to anyone.

I am not "criticising" as you put it for any reason other than to highlight the dangers of doing what someone previously suggested.. that is EVDA getting involved. I don't thinkk right now they are at all ready to get involved and I would be remiss if I just ignored it and "let them get on with it". It is them getting on with it as it looks like they will that bothers me.

I will continue to campaign for a strong EVDA and telling me to shut up and be quiet will only spur me on. I don't believe that brushing my views under the carpets helps anyone.

 

[Ian]

I would say either get in and support Matt and EVDA or step away and leave them to get on with it.

Affirm.

 

[jontracey]

Sorry Jon I totally disagree. If you believe in something enough then it is worth fighting for. I believe in the EVDA but I don't believe that they are doing any one of us any favours going about it the way they are... or are not as they aren't doing anything at all that is of benefit to anyone.

You wont get any argument from me, if you believe in something and you think its broken then get in and help fix it. You are one of the most passionate EV owners I know, and you really do get behind a cause, but to change the direction of EVDA i really believe you need to be inside working not outside trying to change it.

I wish I had the time to dedicate to the EV community but I don't so I really look to people like you to show leadership.

now to keep paul happy and bring it back on topic .... Chargemaster you suck

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

@Paul_Churchley I agree with @jontracey and think we need people like you in EVDA if it's ever going to work... why not join the management committee and see if you can make it happen?

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Surely it is exactly this kind of event that we need a strong EVDA for?

Jon, Kevin, I have tried to get involved with the EVDA right from the start... they move more slowly than OLEV themselves. To be fair to them they don't have a lot of spare time and so they react as quickly as they can but that is not quickly enough if we are to make anything significant happen. All the time the day to day stuff is tightly run by a committee that is part-time in this way it will be impossibly for me to make any significant difference. I have the time and money to make it all happen but people are not happy with me having so much control. We have gone through this loop before haven't we.

The honest answer is that if people want the EVDA to mean anything in the industry then I can make that happen... but I need the support of the current EVDA committee and the membership or I will be pissing in the wind. If the EVDA committee want me involved then they are very welcome to invite me in with their proposals and I will gladly give them mine but it will not work if they won't give me my head so I can actually make the difference that everyone wants. I would require them to trust me. To trust that I would always act in their interests and not my own and I seem to command very little trust in the EV world.

If we don't talk of EVDA then how else can we respond to this situation? It isn't about the prices IMO... it is about the general concept of OLEV giving money to councils who then employ private companies (Chargemaster) to install and run charging points. That whole process seems against the public interest and immoral even though it is probably perfectly legal in today's climate of outsourcing in the public sector.

I am outraged by it all tbh and that is why I let out about EVDA (sorry). I realise this isn't totally an appropriate thread for that but it is closely connected because if we already had a pro-active and professional EVDA then when things like this happen it would already have a degree of credibility to leverage upon. Right now it has no professional organisation and no credibility whatsoever... and that is a shame. I do get cross because I have tried so many times to get the EVDA or something like it up and running in a way where it could have some impact.

I won't post anymore about the EVDA on this thread... partly because Paul has said to get back on topic which means he thinks this is off-topic (I don't but he is boss!) and partly because it seems that no one is at all interested in an EVDA that actually has any credibility or teeth until things like this happen and then people say... this is something that the EVDA should be involved in. Well the EVDA should be involved in things when there are no issues to fight first... to establish their credentials.

As I say... no more talk of EVDA from me here (I promise!) but I am always open to private discussion or on threads dedicated to the topic.

 

[Paul]

Split this all off at the best point I could see for the specific EVDA discussion relating to the recent Chargemaster announcement, PR work and charging policy.

Some of the comments above include references to this "not being the ideal thread', it's because they were not in this stand-alone context, so no longer apply.

 

[Paul]

Here's the answer to those asking what they're doing, @Matt Beard has compiled the following open letter to Chargemaster PLC:

http://www.evda-uk.org/announcements/open-letter/

 

[markinton]

New to the forum. Not an EV owner at the moment but an interested observer.

As something of an outsider, can I make the point that you are drivers and road users with a consumer / public policy issue you want to raise. Why not contact the AA and the RAC? Yes these are very much commercial organisations, but they still have a very strong campaigning role.

Trying to do everything within the "EV community" is probably counter productive in the long term.

 

[jontracey]

I seem to command very little trust in the EV world.

Paul I have never had any reason not to trust you, even though we have never met I believe you to be a honourable person who would do the right thing.

you have my support

 

[fenlander]

Here's the answer to those asking what they're doing, @Matt Beard has compiled the following open letter to Chargemaster PLC:

http://www.evda-uk.org/announcements/open-letter/

Great letter. Thanks @Matt Beard for putting it together!

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

There has been almost no interest in either of those two organisations in taking on board electric vehicle issues so far but I do agree that if we could inspire them to lobby on our behalf then that would be a step in the right direction. Not sure how we achieve that though.

The letter is a pretty good response IMO. I am not a member of the EVDA (I know... I said I wouldn't mention them again but this is about the letter... please forgive me!) but I would support the opinions expressed within. It will be interesting to see if they even bother to reply and if they do what that response might be.

@jontracey Thank you for that Jon. I would hope that others would think the same or at least come round to thinking so.

 

[Andy]

Great letter. Thanks @Matt Beard for putting it together!

Agreed, that's well worded. Good job !

 

[IanT]

New to the forum. Not an EV owner at the moment but an interested observer.

As something of an outsider, can I make the point that you are drivers and road users with a consumer / public policy issue you want to raise. Why not contact the AA and the RAC? Yes these are very much commercial organisations, but they still have a very strong campaigning role.

Trying to do everything within the "EV community" is probably counter productive in the long term.

I think you make a good point. The AA's Edmund King is good at representing the needs of motorists and your point about trying to do everything within the EV community is very valid, it's becoming a circular debate within the walls of EV advocates.

 

[brian orr]

Here's the answer to those asking what they're doing, @Matt Beard has compiled the following open letter to Chargemaster PLC:
http://www.evda-uk.org/announcements/open-letter/

I don't read that it was posted to CEO Chargemaster?
Unfortunately the letter strays from the original objectives and poses too many questions - the more questions posed - the more difficult it is for the recipient to formulate a succinct answer?
There should now be a complementary letter to OLEV - 'Govt subsidy - but immediate revenue generation - can this be right'?

 

[Julian Hasinski]

The board members of Chargemaster are aiming to sell their company for the best price, thats why the tariffs are high. Whats needed is competition.....

Julian