Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,939 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was listening to some women chatting in a cafe the other day, discussing their new car choices. All the usual phrases came up, discussing engine size, fuel type and MPG. Then as my family and I gawped at some Maseratis and Ferraris with their engines on show I thought about the engine size, performance and whatnot... all in "traditional" well established terms.

Then I thought ask me the same about an i3, about a Model S, even about my LEAF... I've no idea how to explain.

To help "normalise" EVs it seems to me that part of the progression should be that we know and speak about them on some kind of "normal" car level. But is this even possible?

For example the ZOE has a 65 kW motor, the LEAF has a 80 kW motor, the BMW i3 has a 130 kW and the Model S has a 310 kW motor. That's how they seem to be described in most scenarios, maybe with a hp rating in brackets.

I know they're electric, but is there a reason we're not more used to seeing and saying the ZOE has a 87 bhp motor, the BMW i3 a 174 bhp motor and the Tesla a whopping 416 bhp motor?

I also find it hard to explain (as I don't really understand) why a Tesla motor produces 416 hp when a ZOE produces 87 hp. With a traditional car I know (more or less) what's going on and can explain that in terms which other drivers and car people will basically understand. But with electric drive... not so much. Is there an equivalent of valve numbers or engine block size we can translate or transcend into EV talk?

Does anyone else here understand and appreciate what I mean and think I have a valid point? Can we educate each other to the extent we can make an EV sound more "normal" in day to day car conversations?


:confused:o_O
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Why compare power ratings of EVs anyway? We don't compare vacuum cleaners or washing machines in those terms, but in how effective they are at fulfilling their roles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Why compare power ratings of EVs anyway? We don't compare vacuum cleaners or washing machines in those terms, but in how effective they are at fulfilling their roles.
Less of the "We". My wife recently was comparing vacuum cleaners by their motor power for 'suction" and for a washing machine it was motor spin speed on rinse and load capacity.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,939 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Why compare power ratings of EVs anyway? We don't compare vacuum cleaners or washing machines in those terms, but in how effective they are at fulfilling their roles.
Because from my experience (and the conversation I was over hearing) that's how people talk about vehicles and cars. How fast and/or powerful is it, what engine size, what MPG and maybe what 0-60. Not "how well does it suit your needs?". If you see what I mean?

Less of the "We". My wife recently was comparing vacuum cleaners by their motor power for 'suction" and for a washing machine it was motor spin speed on rinse and load capacity.
Me too, sadly. Same with pressure washers, which I just spent FAR too much time researching. :D
 

·
SU-EV convert
Jaguar iPace 2020
Joined
·
338 Posts
A lot of the ICE appreciation chat is ill informed anyway. You rarely hear anyone mentioning max torque @ rpm whereas this is a big factor in the car feeling good in normal use. That's conditioned by the engine size, diesel or petrol, gear box set-up etc...

So for example saying that the i3 has 168hp (very often quoted) and all the torque from the get go says a lot to me. Model S owners might find describing their cars acceleration being a bit like the Falcon Millennium's jump to hyperspace...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,939 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So for example saying that the i3 has 168hp (very often quoted) and all the torque from the get go says a lot to me. Model S owners might find describing their cars acceleration being a bit like the Falcon Millennium's jump to hyperspace...
The first one is "normal" car talk (i3) the second one is Clarksonese at it's finest (via Consumer Reports originally I believe) and helps mystify rather than level the playing the field, which is what I'd like to think we could do.

Is it because folks (like me) don't really get why a Model S is 416 hp and the ZOE 87, so we can't even begin to boil it down to "regular" terms? Is it just a "bigger" motor, what does that mean for fuel/power consumption, reliability, all the "regular" car things people discuss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Model S owners might find describing their cars acceleration being a bit like the Falcon Millennium's jump to hyperspace...
That made me laugh; my wife the other day exclaimed "punch it chewwie" when we moved from a 30 to national speed limit zone; thank heaven for the excellent traction and stability control is all I can say ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
The first one is "normal" car talk (i3) the second one is Clarksonese at it's finest (via Consumer Reports originally I believe) and helps mystify rather than level the playing the field, which is what I'd like to think we could do.

Is it because folks (like me) don't really get why a Model S is 416 hp and the ZOE 87, so we can't even begin to boil it down to "regular" terms? Is it just a "bigger" motor, what does that mean for fuel/power consumption, reliability, all the "regular" car things people discuss.
I tell people it's 88bhp and and it's Electric with 240nm, if I say it's 65kw at max power it's 87kw people look at me with that look on there face like what is he talking about, so I never talk about KW
 

·
Now enjoying my new Kia SOUL EV
2020 Hyundai Ioniq Electric (38.3 kWh) Premium SE in Iron Grey with Shale Grey Interior option
Joined
·
1,204 Posts
I tell people it's 88bhp and and it's Electric with 240nm, if I say it's 65kw at max power it's 87kw people look at me with that look on there face like what is he talking about, so I never talk about KW
Which is exactly what @Paul is talking about. If you talk in EV terms then non EV people simply do not follow.

Until I got my car I certainly never thought about Miles per kWh and had no clue whether 4, 6 or 10 would be a good or bad number. Heck , I always get confused at the Litres/100 Km calculation as the lower the number the better which goes against normal MPG thinking.

Some things are so ingrained it will take decades to change. Look at imperial weights and measures. We all still talk about pint of beer, pint of milk, price of a gallon, pound of mince yet buy everything in litres, grams and kilograms.

Converting electric motors to BHp makes some sort of sense to "normal" people. Fuel consumption is a different matter however. I have no idea how you would explain miles per kWh unless the other person is interested.

Derek
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eunicholas

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
I always say it's about £2.60 for every 100 miles. Most of my friends iv done over 100 miles in one go with them in the car so they know it's true but still don't like ev's. All my cars have been power full cars like a EVO4 RX7 so thing think iv gone insane lol.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,599 Posts
I don't mind the change to kw. The "litres" for engines was starting to be meaningless (my GF's 0.6l turbo Fiat 500 is more powerful than the 1.2l non-turbo) and it's difficult to relate "horsepower" to anything, I have never measured the output of a horse...

I guess you can start geeking out about the motor type (DC, AC, brushes or brushless, permenant magnet, hybrid) but power output is a constant and simple comparison.

As for why the Model S motor is so much more powerful than the Zoe, yes, the motor is probably a little larger, but not massively so. The difference is in the inverter (the component which takes DC electrcity and makes it AC to feed the motor) which is much more powerful. That's the difference between the normal 85kw Model S and the Performance version, a more powerful inverter (+60hp in old money). The other important factors are the battery, a poor Leaf battery is cranking out close to 4C at full power, they couldn't push out the ~13C needed to power a Model S P85. The other consideration of course is that even if you could persuade the Leaf cells to give that much power, and the inverter was up to the job, you would empty the battery VERY quickly, as in less than 5minutes!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,714 Posts
Someone asked me what the mpg was recently ...

In the US they have MPG-e but there doesn't seem to be an EU equivalent yet.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,939 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
And as US and UK gallon are different, I guess we can't directly translate. On that front I don't think it really matters. I tend to say that if I charged solely at home 10k miles would cost in the region of £350 in fuel. That's roughly accurate and really makes people understand the basics of that side of things.
 

·
Leaf lover
Joined
·
4,945 Posts
I like the idea of a Model S being designated as being Torque Factor Nine and all other ev having comparative figures.
In stating acceleration we should have both 0-60 and 0-30 figures because for me on our crowded 0-30 is the telling one.
One thing potential ev owners will want to discuss is speed of charging at home and away. X miles/minute?

I wonder what one-upmanship terminology rival Volkswagen salesmen use to describe their vehicles?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
That made me laugh; my wife the other day exclaimed "punch it chewwie" when we moved from a 30 to national speed limit zone; thank heaven for the excellent traction and stability control is all I can say ;-)
A Star Wars Geek Girl..She's a keeper! (if You don't mind being classed as a Wookie!:p)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
I suppose we could keep things in best petrolhead terms and talk about horsepower output to keep things on the same comparative level..but the way EV's lay down the power,the pickup from zero is going to be faster than an ICE at the lights..apples and oranges..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,939 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I suppose we could keep things in best petrolhead terms and talk about horsepower output to keep things on the same comparative level..but the way EV's lay down the power,the pickup from zero is going to be faster than an ICE at the lights..apples and oranges..
This is a good thing, if only we could get EV makers to post official 0-30s as well as 60 (or 62).
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top