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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Andy, I only just realised the ECU gets its own direct power supply from the power cable from the house. I thought all the power was delivered via the RCBO which is why I was confused with the process of elimination.

Makes more sense now. I’ll isolate the ECU and see if the light comes on.
 

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Ok, here's what I think is the actual Early Dumb Rolec EVSE wiring diagram. Please check & see if this matches what you have!
139666
 

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Andy, I only just realised the ECU gets its own direct power supply from the power cable from the house...
What? !!! I have no idea why it would be done like this; certainly wasnn't like that on mine, and it'snot like that in the Viridian diagrams either. Seems bizarre to me...

... I thought all the power was delivered via the RCBO...
That's how mine's always been. Supposing the RCBO detects a fault & trips, trying to protect downstream stuff by isolating the 250V L wire. Why would you want a separate 250V wire going into the ECU, where an internal short could feed 250V out along the CP wire, all the way to the plug at the EV?
 

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What? !!! I have no idea why it would be done like this; certainly wasnn't like that on mine, and it'snot like that in the Viridian diagrams either. Seems bizarre to me...


That's how mine's always been. Supposing the RCBO detects a fault & trips, trying to protect downstream stuff by isolating the 250V L wire. Why would you want a separate 250V wire going into the ECU, where an internal short could feed 250V out along the CP wire, all the way to the plug at the EV?
Well it is not obvious from the photos. Confused?
 

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I'm not confused! But I think some of the Rolec fitters may have been... !
 

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2020 Kona EV, Red, 230.4MJ (64kWh) Premium SE (10.5kW OBC)
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Please get assistance from a competent, qualified electrician with the correct test equipment.

The potential fire risk from an incorrectly installed outlet which "is working just fine" is significant, and from the look of your original breaker, you were very close to becoming the next victim. Without measuring accurately a number of parameters with specialist test equipment you are gambling with the lives of your entire household.
 

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Andy, I only just realised the ECU gets its own direct power supply from the power cable from the house...
Hmm, just had a close look at your pic #2. Looks to me like the L & N from the top section of the ECU curl round & join into the wire bundles going into the bottom connectors of the RCBO. The input wires to RCBO at the top (one of which is the damaged N) don't seem to have any other connections at all, as far as I can see? It looks to me like it's wired how it should be. A sparky will have a megger to check for faulty insulation etc somewhere, which may well be the (new) problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Please get assistance from a competent, qualified electrician with the correct test equipment.

The potential fire risk from an incorrectly installed outlet which "is working just fine" is significant, and from the look of your original breaker, you were very close to becoming the next victim. Without measuring accurately a number of parameters with specialist test equipment you are gambling with the lives of your entire household.
I hear you. I was hoping it would be a simple strip the wire a little, swap the RCBO and back to charging. If I can't tidy up the termination and get it working with minimal intervention today then I will call in a professional.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Hmm, just had a close look at your pic #2. Looks to me like the L & N from the top section of the ECU curl round & join into the wire bundles going into the bottom connectors of the RCBO. The input wires to RCBO at the top (one of which is the damaged N) don't seem to have any other connections at all, as far as I can see? It looks to me like it's wired how it should be. A sparky will have a megger to check for faulty insulation etc somewhere, which may well be the (new) problem.
I'm not sure it does get its own power supply. Let me explain my confusion :)

I thought the power came from the DB in my house to the RCBO, then the contacter then the ECU. You mentioned about process of elimination and disconnecting the RCBO from the contacter then testing the light powered from the ECU. Therefore I presumed the ECU gets direct power through alternative cables coming from the DB. Based picture 2 I thought this was the black cable and potentially another just out of shot.

I'm gathering from the replies I'm wrong. :)

I'll go back and confirm in a bit but to check, how do I test an ECU if the bottom (out) of the RCBO is disconnected?
 

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I hear you. I was hoping it would be a simple strip the wire a little, swap the RCBO and back to charging. If I can't tidy up the termination and get it working with minimal intervention today then I will call in a professional.
Does the RCBO stay on (up)?
Does it trip when you press test?
Do you have any light showing?
Does it trip when you plug in the car?
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Does the RCBO stay on (up)?
Does it trip when you press test?
Do you have any light showing?
Does it trip when you plug in the car?
Yes.
Yes.
No.
No.

You wouldn't think it has any power visually. The fact it stays on and trips when testing are the only clue.
 

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Yes.
Yes.
No.
No.

You wouldn't think it has any power visually. The fact it stays on and trips when testing are the only clue.
You need to check the power is actually getting to the ECU by measuring the ac voltage between live and neutral at the terminals on the ECU ( eg. using a cheap multimeter). If it has power, but no lights it is probably broken IMO. If there is no power there you should check the output of the RCBO to see if that is at fault, or some problem with the connection between RCBO and ECU.
 

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Hi,
I don't mean to say that you haven't done this already but have you definitely pushed the rcbo switch to the fully off 'down' position (without pressing the test switch) it might take a bit of force and you may hear it click.
This catches people out with some types of rcbo.
Also double check all cables are terminated securely, wiggle test, even though you may not have touched them just working in the vicinity can disturb something.
As said without proper test equipment/capability this might be as far as you can safely go.
Cheers.
 

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I'm the last person to take the high ground on not taking things apart you possibly shouldn't in the hopes of a simple fix but it does feel like you've gone further down the rabbit hole than the poke and hope technique is suitable. At this point you need to have a multimeter at the very least, if for no other reason than basic safety but it would make fault finding a lot easier. :)
 

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I hear you. I was hoping it would be a simple strip the wire a little, swap the RCBO and back to charging. If I can't tidy up the termination and get it working with minimal intervention today then I will call in a professional.
I am more than little surprised the old style blue Rolec breaker unit lasted as long as it did to be honest !.
Many of these have now been changed out for the newer green type of Rolec branded RCBO’s which are no better in my opinion.
Given the amount of heat that has been generated here, I have genuine concern about the condition of the last few inches of the copper conductors of the supply cable.
The multi strand copper on the neutral line must have become very hard due now due to level of heat generated.
I would feel a lot happier ( if it was my unit ) to be able to trim back that supply line a little more and make off to new RCBO with fresh clean and correctly insulated cable.
The problem here is of course, it looks like the supply line is SWA armoured and trimming back the cable is not that straight forward.
The cables could be cut back and extended with new fresh lines, but by adding another joint on a load of that demand is never a good idea really.
You COULD consider lowering the wall box a little, to give you more SWA cable length inside the wall box maybe ?.
But working with SWA and reglanding it can be a bit of a struggle if you are not use to working with that type of cable.
If possible, I would also consider using cable cripping ferrules on that multi strand wire.
You can see that the factory wiring from Rolec, has them fitted to the lower terminals of the breaker switch.
They give a much better surface area for the termination screw to contact with and just look much neater and professional looking finish to the install.
Basically, in affect they transform a multi strand cable into a solid core cable.
Many problems associated with breaker failures are due to excess heat.
This can be caused by either bad termination of the conducts or incorrectly tightened ( torqued ) terminal screws.
But in the case of the Rolec RCBO’s - they have failed regardless of following all the correct installation procedures.
Quality of the item is the usual problem here, not installer error.
Not in every case of course, but just in most cases let’s say.
I know somebody has also mentioned it ( sorry ) but there should not be any copper conductors ( cable strands ) visible at the termination points of the RCBO.
The Garo unit is a completely different design than the Rolec supplied RCBO’s.
The “Live and Neutral” termination terminals have switched their position.
On the Rolec breakers, the Neutral terminals are on the LH side of the wall box when looking from the front, and the Live is situated on the RH side.
On the Garo unit, these are the completely opposite away around.
The fitting instruction that came with the Garo unit, clearly states that the incoming feed can enter the RCBO from either the top or the bottom of the breaker.
Here is an idea !.
If you can get the current factory lower wiring to reach the top of the breaker, you COULD trim back them burnt lines, and bring them into the bottom of the RCBO !.
I like that plan - what do you think ?.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Here is an idea !.
If you can get the current factory lower wiring to reach the top of the breaker, you COULD trim back them burnt lines, and bring them into the bottom of the RCBO !.
I like that plan - what do you think ?.
The plastic on that grey wire (N) was completed melted on the first two inches with the metal wire seared off. I peeled off all the burnt plastic I could and tried to bend up the wire so that the contact would be made with a 'cleaner' part of the wire. I now recognise this is stupid and I need to trim rather than have exposed wire. It is top of this mornings things to fix.

I stripped back the damaged cable as much as I could based on the slack of the cable in relation to the terminal in the GARO. I like your idea though as it means I can really trim it back to nice quality wire and terminate at the bottom. Here's another idea, should I just rotate the GARO 180 degrees for the same outcome? I know the switch will be upside down but I presume that has no actual impact?
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
So I trimmed off as much as I could and stripped back the plastic to show some healthy looking copper underneath. I terminated tightly and tried again.


Same as before. Charger appears dead other than the switch flicks to off when pressing the test button. No lights on charger and car states no power source.

I have a multimeter but am unfamiliar with using it. I presume the next step would be to check the power is getting to the ECU by isolating the contacter?

Do these terminations look OK?
139683
 

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Hard to tell without giving them a wiggle 😆 but the terminations certainly look a lot better than before! If you're confident using a multimeter to measure potentially lethal ac voltages, then the next step would be to check if there is voltage at the ECU input and then take it from there. However, with the greatest respect, please don't even start if you're not fully confident in what you're doing.
 
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