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This is my first time posting... I introduce myself as 'snivlingwimp' (my online gaming name as a joke/commentary about how people take online names of invincibility in online gaming)

There has been a story on the site of
www.strangecosmos.com that is factually incorrect in many ways and I wish to discredit it…I will put the article in it's entirety and insert my comments in bold and point out blatant falsehoods... and quote the original article/fake news story sans bold throughout...

i welcome any commentary on any possible incorrect statements I have made in my rebuttal and ask that you correct/discuss them so that I might also better educate myself

The ‘False news’ is titled “More Governmental Lies About Electric Cars - The Untold Costs Of This Failed Scam - Chevy Volt” and can be found at More Governmental Lies About Electric Cars - The Untold Costs Of This Failed Scam - Chevy Volt

Chevy Volt - The REAL Costs - Scary


This is true? As a "joke", my Chevy dealer gave me a Volt as a loaner while my full-size pick-up was getting some attention. He thought it was funny to give his energy company CEO this thing here on Vancouver Island! I live 30 kilometers outside of Victoria near Sidney.

The battery was dead - later he admitted they almost never charged it. While the car was "OK", on gasoline, it was pretty anemic. So for the extra money, even taking into account Chevy rebates and Provincial incentives, you get an under-powered, heavy car that felt "too small" for its actual size (battery has to go somewhere).

Even with the battery uncharged in a volt you can still travel..

Now the kicker: at a neighborhood barbecue, I was talking to a Neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service.

It is incorrect to say a Tesla ‘requires’ a 75 amp service… it is accurate to say it is ‘capable’ of such amperage for ‘fast charge’ it can slowly charge on slower amps such as a regular 110 outlet that usually puts out 15-20 amps (found every few feet in a house) or a dryer type of outlet that can usually put out 20-50 amps. I know..I do so with my electric Nissan Leaf every day on a 110 outlet...75 amp is for the rapid charge/quick charge special sites that can handle such a load and is never done at home charging locations...As such This observation that 75 amp service is ‘required’ to charge your vehicle at home is invalid

The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.

My 145 year old house is 100 amps… but I just use less than 12 amps off of a regular 110 outlet to charge my car… the same outlet you use for a hair dryer or refrigerator etc.etc.

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles ... Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load.

We all use that much with 110 outlets regularly (your refrig.. A hair dryer..etc) As such it would NOT overload your home or the neighborhood grid. And most people charge at night while sleeping when the car is not in use and the electrical grid is not being taxed as much (more on that below)

So as our genius elected officials ram this nonsense down our collective throats, not only are we being forced to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an oops and a shrug.

I know people that are paying less per month on their electric bills due to their leased solar systems… they put out NO money/capital outlay and the system is maintained by the company that installed it. While they do not own the system, (I note the difference here of leasing the system instead of buying it outright.) To purchase it outright would be $10,000-$20,000 upfront capital outlay.. By leasing the people are out nothing and don’t have to worry about it breaking down. Even though in the long run to buy it outright means better saving in the long run according to my investigations

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are Eco-friendly, just read the below:

Note: However, if you ARE the green person, read it anyway. Enlightening.

I did not buy my electric car for ‘green’ reasons… I bought it for other reasons (economics, i will explain later below why )… so if you wish to argue that I can’t be reasoned with because i am ‘green’ you are incorrect.. again...My purchase of an electric car was not for green reasons…

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors... and he writes...For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.

Incorrect… the new volt gets 53 miles on battery only

Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kWh battery is approximately 270 miles.

Incorrect… the newer volt gets 43 mpg… 53 miles battery only, 420 total with gas

It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add

10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

As stated above.. you do not need the car to be charged.. You CAN just gas it and go...my best friend owns a volt and went to from Denver to the east coast and back without recharging.. But the first 35 miles were from stored battery energy.. (he has an older Volt with a 35 mile battery only range)..

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kWh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.

The claim that it takes 10 hours to charge is correct IF you are using the slowest charge speed off of a regular 110 outlet.. Those are the ‘regular’ outlets you plug into with your refrig.. A hair dryer..etc if you have a ‘dryer’ type outlet to plug into it takes 4.5 hours to charge (this is all assuming the battery needs to charge up all the way… if you have some charge left when you start to recharge it takes aven less time…) also.. If you have a fast charging option (I have it on my nissan leaf) You can charge up in about 20-30 minutes at special ‘electric’ stations… not at home though)

The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kWh.

This is the biggest outright lie and is easy to discredit… the national average for electricity is 12 cents per kWh as in $.12 cents per kWh that is almost one tenth or 10 percent of what this article quotes… … go google it.. Here is a link to one such site that calculates this Electricity Prices and Rates (Updated Jan 2017) – Electric Choice

In my neck of the woods is even less… in certain places in the country as in Arizona it is as low as $.04 at night when charged in off peak hours.. That is literally 3/100ths or 3 percent of the price that is quoted in this fake news article

16 kWh x $1.16 per kWh = $18.56 to charge the battery.

Lies lies lies.. At .12 cents per kWh (national average price) the equation would be 16kWh x $.12 per kWh = $1.92….. Or in my neck of the woods with special off peak hours charging 16 KWh x $.04 per Kwh = .64 cents..to charge it

$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

At .12 cents per kWh (national average price) about 3 cents a mile… at my place ( never mentioned I hail from Arizona and Colorado) at the off peak charging times at the discounted rate. 1 cent per mile$$$ Google how much it costs per mile in electricity for a nissan leaf and it will say 3.3 cents a mile on average rates...

The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000.........So the American Government wants proud and loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country.....

Here is an link on how one guy bought a NEW nissan leaf one for for only $8,500 (I don’t remember if he calculated taxes or mentions how long it took to get rebates back...… i bought mine (used) for even less…

Why I bought a new Nissan Leaf electric car 2 hours from home: $8,500 net cost

Still wonder why Trump won?”

No… i don’t wonder….

Here is why i bought a nissan leaf below

My adventures with My Nissan Leaf...Had this car for almost a year now since Feb 2016.. I love it.... I would rate it only 4 out of 5 stars... range anxiety... (more on that later)

I bought a 2012 (used) with 6.6 Kw faster charger option (now standard on all newer models I believe) that had 29,000 miles on it. I was finally convinced now was the time to buy prompted by consumer reports advice (and chose the 2012 in part due to better reliability scoring over other model years



Savings?!?!?! The IRS says it takes $9000 a year over the life of a new car after gas/insurance/maintenance/initial capital outlay etc… I figure about $2600(?) a year for My Nissan leaf, (keep in mind I bought my car used) breakdown… a year in insurance (about $1000 a year full coverage) $500 Electricity .. and some more in tires in wipers and stuff averaged over time...That combined with electricity vs gas savings means there is a difference of savings with my (albeit used) Nissan Leaf vs. a new ICE (internal combustion engine (think gas powered)) and figure that the car will cost $7500 to purchase and I can us it for maybe 5 years (so we figure it costs THATS $1,000+ a year if you average out the initial capital outlay over time The Difference is $6000 a year less to operate this vehicle IF THE IRS AVERAGE OF $9000 IS TO BE ACCEPTED is how it works out … more on how I came to that figure below

Initial capital outlay was $9000 but with Colorado rebate (they offer %24 rebate on next years taxes if previously registered in another state) brings it down to $7400 after taxes and rebate. Here is a link of someone in my neck of the woods that bought NEW (albiet a lower trim model) for $8500 (before taxes after rebates both colorado and federal) Why I bought a new Nissan Leaf electric car 2 hours from home: $8,500 net cost … but I couldn’t justify the initial capital outlay of $30,000+ to wait for the rebates to come in a 3 year period… (also note his $8,500 purchase didn’t include about $2,000 in taxes?) So I bought used...

Gas vs. Electricity price wise.... if driven 15,000 miles a year (realistic for me) the cost at $2 a gallon ($1500) vs. 11.5 cents a Kw in Colorado (Kw = Kilowatt) ($500 a year) is $1000 in savings... or $2500 in savings if gas is $4 a gallon... There are places in the nation that charge 4 cents a Kw if charging in the middle of the night... So in my neck of the woods I calculate it costs me about 3 cents a mile for energy vs. about 9 cents a mile for gas (at current $2 a gallon)

Maintenance: If I interpret all the articles and real world data correctly they claim electric cars cost a ⅓ to maintain.... My real world experience says it is less... If you are willing to change you own air filter and windshield wipers (sooo easy).. About the only costs for maintenance are tires & wipers (wipers once a year?) if you provide your own labor.. The dealership I asked for a quote for changing the air filter wanted $100… I went to Amazon.com and got the filter for $7...You do the math (it only takes a few minutes to change it after you get it down).. NO oil changes.. Spark plugs.. Etc etc… etc….

Performance… I LOVE the way it accelerates… Merging into traffic from an On ramp onto the freeway makes me giddy (literally) because of the INSTANT torque/acceleration of an electric vehicle. If there is a hole between 2 cars and I need to go faster to get to it to get onto the freeway the car. I am not a speed junkie but in this case I am enamored that INSTANT torque/acceleration when I need/want to shoot for that left lane merge onto a freeway …(note: the Nissan leaf supposedly won’t go faster than 93MPH)

Robust charging network… In my neck of the woods (Denver/ Front Range) there is a sizable charging network. There are basically 3 kinds of charging for the leaf (more on that below) … Level 1, Level 2, Level 3… There is an app called ‘Plugshare’ to check out your areas charging network (more on Plugshare.com and the plugshare app later) I read that the Federal Government is trying to increase the coast to coast infrastructure… here is one link to one such article This is Obama’s plan to line the country’s roads with electric vehicle chargers

Level 1.. The ‘Brick’ (Technically called an EVSE (the specialized ‘extension cord’ that plugs into your car)) that you plug into your car (comes with your car) plugs into a regular outlet… this trickle charges the battery slowly ...basically you sleep, it charges.. Cons: is slow,.. Pros: they are everywhere!!! You probably don’t have to rewire anything in your garage to plug in at night… I had to do some rewiring in my case… The car draws 12 amps in this mode… No problem for the normal outlet that is normally 15 amps.. But I had a freezer on the same wiring that kicked in in summertime and the car and freezer combined taxed the amperage to much...I paid a friend $100 to put the car on its own line so there was no competition for the amperage..

Level 2… this is (up to) 30 amps … Most Nissan after 2012 leafs handle up to 30 amps (approx 6 Kw per hour). Some Leafs prior to 2013 can’t handle this 6Kw per hour level 2… Mine can… So I plug into these in the robust network that exists here… Pros: Most of these are free to charge at around town… saves a few extra bucks Cons: is still not terribly fast.. Think about 3 hours to fill it up from empty… I spend about 2 hours a a restaurant working on Monday nights that has a free one and I ‘top it off’ … It costs them about a half dollar I figure for them to let me to do so… I don’t really do level 2 charging that much ‘out in the wild’ due to the slowness of it.. Think of using it when you go shopping at a mall for a few hours (they have level 2 charging there usually for free). II really would like to upgrade my garage to a level 2.. I found on the internet a place that if you send your Level 1 ‘brick’ to they will upgrade it to a level 2 (still level 1 compatible at the same time) here is that link EVSE Upgrade - Low-Cost EV Charging Solutions . Am still investigating/pondering it... I figure the convenience might be worth it and this option appears to cost MUCH less than brand new level 2 chargers for home use. (fortunately the correct gauge of wiring from my main box to the garage is already in place so I am going to get off cheap in just connecting proper outlet/stabber at the main box and the outlet….(in Denver I heard they just passed a law/building code that now requires this wiring to accommodate this Level 2 charging in newly built homes) also.. With this newer setup I can use an adapter for NEMA outlets to recharge at any RV park or even any household Dryer outlet 14 Universal L6-30 Adapter - For 14-30, 14-50, and 14-60 outlets [A14X30] - $37.95 : EVSE Upgrade, Low-Cost EV Charging Solutions

Level 3…Pros: ITS FAST!!! I use this level ‘in the wild’ A LOT this level 3 charging is also known as Rapid charge or Chademo.. These Level 3 Rapid chargers are my main solution to ‘range anxiety’. In my neck of the woods I can go for 100’s of miles north or south and use them. Plugshare.com shows them incredibly plentiful on the east and west coat (I am envious) and here in Denver/Front range.... They can in about twenty minutes recharge your vehicle about %80 about a 3rd of these ARE FREE (Think dealerships)... some others are privately owned and cost money but I justify the expense in that it is still cheaper over the course of a year to use these than own an ICE car after all the savings (see above) I figure I have spent the money I spend on level 3 (the ones that make you pay) on what I get for free from free level 2 charging.. So I don’t really calculate these costs/ saving as they appear to ‘wash’ each other out.

Basically think of level 3 as your ‘gas station fill up spots like you would an old fashioned ice gas powered car…. Yes .. you have to know where they are (that plugshare.com and app addresses this nicely but you need to learn to filter out the results compatible for your nissan leaf and eliminate things like Tesla only charging spots etc) Con: You need to leave a few minutes early to accomodate charging the extra time at a Level 3..or plan on getting back to home base a few minures later if you can charge on the way home… I use these about twice a week (usually for free) and sit answering emal/playing games on my phone for 10 (sometimes more) minutes.

Cons:There are some minor cons that I have accepted and are ‘manageable’ (more on the minor ones after the major one below)

The MAJOR CON: RANGE RANGE RANGE.. I might call this a minor con after adjusting my driving habits after a while…(more on that below)

Yep.. The newer cars promise better range… but I can live with this 2012 personally Note that with diminished battery due to degradation so I really only have a 75 mile range… Read about the level chargers above and it will fill in this some of the info for this section to address range anxiety it fairly well…But here is the bottom line for my situation and you compare it to your situation… I live centrally in Denver and geographically I can get about anywhere in the front range on a full charge… If I go to north to Fort collins or south to Colorado Springs (60 or 70 miles) I need to use a rapid charger to get back conveniently and plan ahead with an extra half hour using level 3 rapid chargers (again, see that level 1,2,3 charging explanation above)

Minor cons: Lack of chargers east of Denver Metro/Front range.. I have an older Ice car that has become the secondary car. If I need to go someplace that can’t accommodate our primary car (The leaf is our primary as we use it %90 of the time) We go to the relatives in Nebraska we are using the ICE gas car… also.. Range wise west… there are too few chargers… again I use the ice gas car… the leaf gets LOUSY range going up the mountain.. Case in point.. The first day I ever took the leaf out with the wifeypoo I was alarmed that the range indicator plummeted from 70or80 to 4 by the time I got to my destination 32 miles away going up the into the mountains… I was in a worst case scenario.. Going uphill and on a freeway (freeway speeds diminish range, keep at 50-55 MPH for maximium range) I got to my destination with 4 miles to spare on the range indicator.. Also going uphill taxed my milage… I knew there was a recharger at my destination but declined to use it as coming back it was downhill… using regenerative braking I got back to home base with the indicator at 10 (I picked up some energy from going downhill) So I DID get the 64 miles round trip in with another 10 according to the range indicator… but lesson was learned … I had to drive differently and plnan better to alleviate range anxiety...

Other things that diminish range… using the climate control system dings it by approx. %10 by using the air conditioning or heater.. I understand they have changed the heater system in later models to be more efficient)..NOTE:.. the heated seats do a LOT to keep your body warm without taxing the heater/battery in the car… also… you can (from your smartphone or computer or the car itself) preheat/precool the car without diminishing the range of the battery so it is already at a comfortable temperature when you climb in (My wife likes this feature a lot)

Things to extend your range!!! Adjusting your driving habits...hypermiling.. I am NOT talking about drafting off of a semi but getting in the slower right hand lane and not the faster left hand lane on the freeway does a LOT for extending your range….. Another BIG thing is to maintain a constant speed and NOT getting close to the car in front of you.. Leave MORE room.. NO.. i mean even MORE room.. That way when they speed up and slow down you just don’t have to hit your brakes to slow down as much and that means you don’t have to use energy to speed up again… I do this by observing the cars in front of me (as far as the line of sight will allow) and if any (especially if all their lights go on) of their brake lights come on I take my foot off the gas pedal because i drive in ECO mode mostly that gives energy back to the battery but more importantly I am not stomping with the brake pads and having to reapply energy to speed back up as fast… It is a major energy saver with this one driving habit changed… If the car in front of me hits there brake lights now I just instinctively let up on the gas pedal instead of braking…It probably cuts down on rear ending people too!!! Think of ECO mode as the newer version of gearing down with the old gas ICE cars… but instead of using it to slow down you are using WHEN you are coincidentally slowing down on an off ramp or to a red light and it actually gives a little electricity BACK to the engine. On the freeway it saves your range and you regenerative brake to slow down instead of using the brake pads to brake...If there is a red light ahead.. I let up on the gas… etc. NOTE: when in ECO mode it saves energy by tempering the sensitivity of the gas pedal so you accelerate slower (unless you stomp on it and it responds immediately).. I use ECO mode almost exclusively… and use the stomp on it method when I need those bursts of speed… Newer models have an extra SUPER eco mode I understand)

Minor cons I have found..The control system in the Nissan leaf is clumsy compared to your smartphone… It's there if you need it but I just use google maps and plugshare...SOOOOOOOOooo much more user friendly and up to date.. Plus it knows where the traffic is.. Etc…

Note: as of 2017 I have decided not to upgrade to the new $199 upgrade for the old 'carwings' since I never used it anyways (AT&T was discontinuing their 2G service and I don't see the need for it)

There are several tools in your car to give you feedback as to how efficiently you are driving...use them to help you adjust your driving habits… there is a big indicator that gives you feedback where your speedometer is.. But there are 2 other ‘hidden’ ones that I use now that I know they are there… one of them is ‘hidden ‘ in the center console that is about a 7 inch rectangle (below the center vents) and gives you feedback as to how much ‘torque’ you are using/available. The other can be seen through your steering wheel when you hit one of those 4 buttons to the left of the steering wheel (I forget which one).. It changes the display info… one of those gives you an ‘average Kilowatt per mile’ indicator that goes up and down and fluctuates wildly as you stomp or not on the gas pedal … handy to see if you want instant feedback on how acceleration affects your milage.. I find there's some redundancy to the main one but it does give some different feedback and useful if running low to remind you to adjust your habits to eek out that extra few miles because you are ‘running on fumes’ Note: I found a buried screen in the energy subsystem that gives me a huge amount of info on the energy use...


5,530 Posts
Looking at the first page of that website, it looks like one of those weird & wonderful sites designed to appeal to the credulous. If the article offends you, I suggest you post a rebuttal explaining that Volt drives as per ICE car for long journeys, & also as zero-fumes EV for up to 30-50 miles (weather, speed dependent) where you want it e.g. urban areas. Also that it's V cheap to run in EV mode. If you try to make it technical no-one will read it. I haven't yet managed to digest your append!

Good luck. P.s is there a typo in your nickname?

267 Posts
Hello and welcome to the site.

You are (of course) absolutely right and the writer of the original article clearly doesn't understand the concept.

The Volt does need some charge in the HV battery because the starter motor operates from the high voltage system, but of course as you describe, it can be used indefinately without plugging in if necessary (although to do so would defeat the point of having it). The Volt can also compete with the miles per gallon of similarly sized cars with more conventional powertrains when operating in petrol mode, which cannot really be said of the Outlander or i3 REX.

In terms of the miles per charge and miles per gallon on petrol, this of course is dependent on driving style and speed, road conditions, weather, temperature, accessory power consumption etc, so the figures may well be as-measured, even if not really representitive.

It seems both in print and in speech people are quick to judge EVs on things they are not designed for. Yes, once a year a Leaf may be less practical than an ICE for a long journey, but the other 364 days you have a smoother, quieter, cheaper, more fun driving experience.

In the case of the Volt, my parents have the UK equivelant (Vauxhall Ampera) and use it for 90% of journeys on electric only. When they need to go for a longer run, they just top up the petrol tank and it transforms en route, saving the need for an economical town car and a seperate long distance car. What's not to like?

5,978 Posts
I think a lot of that article sounds very familiar. There may be some changes to the wording but the $1.16 for 1kWh electricity rings a bell. I think most of the text is taken from something about 4 years old (hence mileage figures from the original Volt).

Ah here we go, first Google hit: Cost to Operate the Chevy Volt

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478 Posts
Possibly not quite the point that the OP is making but 'fake news' doesn't trouble me at all.
I work by the rule - Don't believe anything unless you trust the source - and even then stay cynical.

What does surprise me is that some people have only just noticed that 'fake news' exists - people have been spouting b****cks since we learnt to speak (and write). What is really concerning is that some have the means - but not the intelligence - to spout their nonsense under the banner of a media outlet which gives it credibility and reach whether or not the spouter knows what they are on about or speaks what they believe to be honest.

This side of the pond we have long had the ironic quote 'It must be true - I read it in the newspaper'. For our American cousins there is the more contemporary 'Don't believe everything you read on the internet. (Abraham Lincoln)'

13 Posts
A huge response would not even be read by those who believe the 'original' post.

Perhaps the only thing needing mentioning is that if the supposed author is an oil company exec who pays $1.16 kWh then everyone (including his shareholders) should seriously question his competence and/or veracity.

Point by point rebuttals to 'internet facts' is a slippery slope to insanity.

841 Posts
Yes this article popped up on my google now page on my phone last night. I wonder if there's actually any way to report fake news, it seems to find its way onto the google now page a lot more than it ought to.

If we can start reporting these things as a collective we might get stuff done...

67 Posts
I thought I'd comment on this old thread. The original article mentioned the "facts" were coming from a BC Hydro executive. Well, I live in British Columbia (the "BC" in BC Hydro) Canada. For those who don't know, BC Hydro is British Columbia's electric utility, and since the province of BC is larger than the countries of France and Germany combined, getting power to everyone's home in this province is a pretty big undertaking.

In the time since the OP, BC Hydro has subsidized thousands of home chargers, and the province has introduced a $3K CAD EV tax credit that stacks on top of the Canadian government's EV tax credit, and EVs now make up 10% of new passenger vehicle sales in British Columbia, and the grid is doing just fine. Kind of fun to look back at obvious lies years later and debunk them easily. :)
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