Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone, i'm planning an ev conversion for next year and started looking for deals on used parts as i want to do things on a strict budget.

I came across this kit that contains : 30 KW ANSALDO electric motor cooled with liquid, about 40kg, Pedal with sensor, drive-neutral-reverse selector, power cables, electrical installation, gearbox, supports and bushings for motor and gearbox, support with belt tensioner for AC compressor, diesel tank for additional heating (probably used to have a webasto heating or something like that), electric water pump (for cooling the motor i guess), radiator and fans, expansion vessel, etc.

link to a bunch of photos:
the guy had the battery as well, the only thing missing was an inverter and the ECU according to the seller however the battery has been sold so that's not available anymore.

he's looking to get about 1200 euros for everything.

couple of questions:
  • is this a good deal at this price?
  • can i use some nissan leaf batteries? or maybe egolf batteries? will it be hard to make them work together?
  • if i can't source the original inverter and ECU can i make it work with something else?
  • will i run into compatibility issues with anything ?
  • as is, what else is missing and what would other parts cost?
  • any other comments or feedback whatever is welcome
thanks,
Norbert
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,715 Posts
At a rough guess it looks a reasonable punt to me. The expensive bit you're missing is the motor controller. This looks like a standard 3-phase permanent-magnet rotor motor, but you need to find a datasheet for the motor. Does it have a plate on it telling you things like rated current, voltage etc? could be anything from around 80V maybe, up to several hundred volts to drive it. Then you need a motor controller, maybe look into Curtis brand. Also make sure you understand just how the accelerator input works, it could be resistive (what range of values?), could be some other system ?encoder?. The Motor Controller you use must be able to understand that particular throttle. Or you can get a different throttle that suits the controller, nothing magic about them. You want a motor controller that provides "regen" when you slow down. I don't know if all these 3-phase PM controllers do this, or not.

There are not many EV-builders on his Forum I suspect, but I'm (very, very, slowly) building a Leaf-battery powered electric motorbike, using Leaf Mk1 cells and a more conventional DC brush motor that runs 80V and is about 1/2 the power of yours.

If you do too much regen to a full Li-ion battery, you'll damage it. You need mechanical brakes as well in there somewhere, so it's your choice how you do the braking.

I don't know if I can get regen working on my single-phase DC motor or not, but if so, I plan to fit an over-voltage device, so if my battery voltage startt to climb above 84V, I'll dump power to a large & chunky resistor. My m'bike will have 2 brake levers, so I'll have front & rear brakes as well as the throttle.

Leaf cells, Mk1 or 2, will be fine. No knowledge of other makes, sorry. Each Leaf module is around 8V DC, so you simply wire up as many as you want in series to get the required voltage. I've got 10 in series, for around 4 kWh capacity. If you needed 80V and let's say 8 kWh capacity, you would make 2 sets like mine, then parallel them up to stay at 80V.

You may want a BMS, battery management system, to look after the cells. I've bought one from alibaba that should do my job, I think it can cope with maybe 12 of 16 battery modules. I haven't played with it yet t see if it actually works!

You'll need something to charge the batteries with. As I'm on 84V at 100% charge, I plan to couple up 4 beefy laptop batteries rated 21V each, in series. Again untested, but others have taken this approach. Won't be a speedy charge!

What other parts are missing? Nothing much, by the sound of it. Couldn't look at other pics of yours as I don't have Imgup on my m/c. Post hem all here if you want, we don't mind! Things like water-cooling need a pump, and probably a thermostat so you don't waste energy pumping until it starts heating up, etc. You may need adapters or similar to couple up the output shaft to whatever wheels/gearbox you/re driving. You may need a speedometer; my son used a mobile phone with GPS in, then wrote an app to to display this in large numbers, plus the state of flashing indicators etc which he senses as inputs into an Arduino mounted in the headlamp case to create one when he "modernised" the speedometer+rev-counter stuff on a honda 125 motorbike for fun! This got through a UK MOT test, so is perfectly legal here! Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF30
Joined
·
6,916 Posts
Hopefully you are planning on something small and light at that power level, in comparison the original LEAF was 80kW and 1,500kg. So ignoring range for similar performance you need to be looking at an all in weight of under 550kg - effectively a stripped out classic Mini, Peugeot 106, a basic kitcar or a motorcycle.
You will learn an awful lot doing it but be realistic as to what use it'll be.
Out of interest, what is the gearbox and driveshaft set-up from?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hopefully you are planning on something small and light at that power level, in comparison the original LEAF was 80kW and 1,500kg. So ignoring range for similar performance you need to be looking at an all in weight of under 550kg - effectively a stripped out classic Mini, Peugeot 106, a basic kitcar or a motorcycle.
You will learn an awful lot doing it but be realistic as to what use it'll be.
Out of interest, what is the gearbox and driveshaft set-up from?
Overall setup will likely be under 1000kg's and i'll have about 15 maybe 20kwh worth of batteries as i don't plan to drive more than 100km with the car anyway. car i'm planning to convert is a Dacia 1300 from the 80's.

the overall setup came from an electric renault kangoo as i was told.

137801
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
question is, should i go ahead with the purchase of this kit for that amount of money? or would i be better off buying a motor, controller, inverter, etc etc etc. separately ?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,478 Posts
Honestly I’d buy a fully functional 2013 Leaf and use those components. They’re reliable, abundantly available, and you know will all work together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Honestly I’d buy a fully functional 2013 Leaf and use those components. They’re reliable, abundantly available, and you know will all work together.
i'm on a budget so that's not really an option.
also, sounds less fun :)
 

·
I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
·
29,874 Posts
Hi everyone, i'm planning an ev conversion for next year and started looking for deals on used parts as i want to do things on a strict budget.

I came across this kit that contains : 30 KW ANSALDO electric motor cooled with liquid, about 40kg, Pedal with sensor, drive-neutral-reverse selector, power cables, electrical installation, gearbox, supports and bushings for motor and gearbox, support with belt tensioner for AC compressor, diesel tank for additional heating (probably used to have a webasto heating or something like that), electric water pump (for cooling the motor i guess), radiator and fans, expansion vessel, etc.

link to a bunch of photos:
the guy had the battery as well, the only thing missing was an inverter and the ECU according to the seller however the battery has been sold so that's not available anymore.

he's looking to get about 1200 euros for everything.

couple of questions:
  • is this a good deal at this price?
  • can i use some nissan leaf batteries? or maybe egolf batteries? will it be hard to make them work together?
  • if i can't source the original inverter and ECU can i make it work with something else?
  • will i run into compatibility issues with anything ?
  • as is, what else is missing and what would other parts cost?
  • any other comments or feedback whatever is welcome
thanks,
Norbert
The missing inverter is a killer.

Mike and I tried to find a replacement inverter for my shitty Allied electric (Ansaldo motor and inverter) and drew a blank.

Forget about it.

It is possible. How much time and money do you have to make something that is completely unreliable and unserviceable?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The missing inverter is a killer.

Mike and I tried to find a replacement inverter for my shitty Allied electric (Ansaldo motor and inverter) and drew a blank.

Forget about it.

It is possible. How much time and money do you have to make something that is completely unreliable and unserviceable?
thanks for your input on this. great eye opener...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,715 Posts
You might not find the Kangoo inverter, but others exist. Haven't managed to read that pdf on my tablet, but get the Motor specs and see if a Curtis one will work. Prob buy that from USA. Using an entire Leaf sounds easy, but you will get sucked into Canbus complexity, BMS won't like an undersized battery, computer will complain about airbags not working and God knows what else. With the bits here you avoid all that. You may also need things like electric powered servo brake assist, but the things exist. There's a firm near Malvern in UK doing exactly what you want. Not cheap, but they stick full Tesla battery packs into Porsche 911s etc.
 

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF30
Joined
·
6,916 Posts
There's a firm near Malvern in UK doing exactly what you want. Not cheap, but they stick full Tesla battery packs into Porsche 911s etc.
But don't expect change from £50k. :eek:

You could buy matched components from someone like Swindon Powertrain
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,715 Posts
Just had a look at the motor specs as can see the pdf on my laptop. It's 180-400V induction motor, nominal 288V. So to make Leaf cells produce 280V, at 8V/module, that's 35 Leaf modules. 1 Mk1 module weighs 3.83 Kg, so 35 will be about 135 Kg, Thats' quite a lot! 2 Adults approx. The motor is an AC induction motor, I think that's probably the wrong thing for you; not easy to synthesise the AC sinusoidal waveform it's going to expect. You'll be better of with a lower voltage DC permanent magnet motor, ideally 3-phase one. It's relatively straightforward to build your own motor controller for one of those. & controllers for these are readily available (at a price of course, probably up to $1000 USD ish).
 
  • Like
Reactions: graz79

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,715 Posts
FWIW the motor I'm using is a "Lynch Motor" conventional 2-pole DC brush motor 80V, there's a similar one for sale on eBay at ridiculous price £1400!!! Paid about 1/3 that for mine 2 years ago. If you were to get 2 low-power motors, you could get rid of the differential and put one motor on each driven wheel. You could parallel-up 2 motors and run both off the same controller.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just had a look at the motor specs as can see the pdf on my laptop. It's 180-400V induction motor, nominal 288V. So to make Leaf cells produce 280V, at 8V/module, that's 35 Leaf modules. 1 Mk1 module weighs 3.83 Kg, so 35 will be about 135 Kg, Thats' quite a lot! 2 Adults approx. The motor is an AC induction motor, I think that's probably the wrong thing for you; not easy to synthesise the AC sinusoidal waveform it's going to expect. You'll be better of with a lower voltage DC permanent magnet motor, ideally 3-phase one. It's relatively straightforward to build your own motor controller for one of those. & controllers for these are readily available (at a price of course, probably up to $1000 USD ish).
thanks for the tips Andy. a lot of in depth and important info to consider. i'll definitely pass on this one and keep looking for something else
 

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF30
Joined
·
6,916 Posts
Good choice. Why not work out what you need based upon your project vehicle? How much does it weigh and what is the performance (speed/range) that you want from it?
As a starter I believe that the original weighed 850kg and had 40kW that resulted in ........errr adequate performance. The chances are that you'll end up with something at least 100kg (think a fat bloke always in the car) heavier but EV performance with a similar amount of power is considerably better than ICE performance until you reach either hills or high speeds. The standard gearbox has no direct drive so is not ideal in terms of life or efficiency so if you can find a geared motor that would be ideal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Just had a look at the motor specs as can see the pdf on my laptop. It's 180-400V induction motor, nominal 288V. So to make Leaf cells produce 280V, at 8V/module, that's 35 Leaf modules. 1 Mk1 module weighs 3.83 Kg, so 35 will be about 135 Kg, Thats' quite a lot! 2 Adults approx. The motor is an AC induction motor, I think that's probably the wrong thing for you; not easy to synthesise the AC sinusoidal waveform it's going to expect. You'll be better of with a lower voltage DC permanent magnet motor, ideally 3-phase one. It's relatively straightforward to build your own motor controller for one of those. & controllers for these are readily available (at a price of course, probably up to $1000 USD ish).
Hi there,
I have a Peugeot boxer with a 54kw battery pack a 40kw ansaldo motor etc.
Unfortunately I cannot get the BMS to communicate with the PuTTy software to figure out what wrong with it. (It was working bit all of a sudden stopped and when I tried to restarted. It want to go forward bit then get stuck and stop)
Any advice or help. I am thinking to dismantle it, to reduce to battery pack and use the component for a new car project (less bulky and heavier than the boxer van) I will surely have some spare to sell too.
I might need assistance as I am new to this 😅.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

Graz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Just had a look at the motor specs as can see the pdf on my laptop. It's 180-400V induction motor, nominal 288V. So to make Leaf cells produce 280V, at 8V/module, that's 35 Leaf modules. 1 Mk1 module weighs 3.83 Kg, so 35 will be about 135 Kg, Thats' quite a lot! 2 Adults approx. The motor is an AC induction motor, I think that's probably the wrong thing for you; not easy to synthesise the AC sinusoidal waveform it's going to expect. You'll be better of with a lower voltage DC permanent magnet motor, ideally 3-phase one. It's relatively straightforward to build your own motor controller for one of those. & controllers for these are readily available (at a price of course, probably up to $1000 USD ish).
Hi HandyAndy,
Could you share some knowledge about building your own motor controller?
Do you have any knowledge about motor inverter?any help will be much appreciated

Thanks
Graz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,715 Posts
Graz, not yet designed or built, but have a look here:Zero Emission Vehicles Australia
which is basically what I want. I don't need anything like that much power handling, and my motor's a simple 2-pole DC brush motor, so all I need is a single H-bridge design. 3-phase brushless motors will have 3 H-bridges.
 
  • Like
Reactions: graz79

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Graz, not yet designed or built, but have a look here:Zero Emission Vehicles Australia
which is basically what I want. I don't need anything like that much power handling, and my motor's a simple 2-pole DC brush motor, so all I need is a single H-bridge design. 3-phase brushless motors will have 3 H-bridges.
Wow, that's amazing! Thank you!
How many KW is your dc motor ? What battery pack are you going to use with it?
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top