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I discussed this issue recently in Spain with a number of Model S drivers and I was interested to see some public discussion on the Tesla Motors forum recently...

I have owned my P85 for nearly two years, and am eagerly awaiting delivery of a new P85D. I am a rabid Telsa fan and shareholder. Given an opportunity, I'm not shy about telling everyone that my experience with my Tesla tells me that electric cars are the future; because they’re just clearly superior vehicles in almost all ways.

Except for long trips. Personally I have never driven my S on a trip over 200 miles. In fact, in my two years of ownership I've almost never charged anywhere other than my garage. For almost all of my daily needs I have no need to charge except at night. But, if I'm going somewhere where my potential distance is anywhere close to my maximum range, I take my ICE. Why? I don't want the inconvenience of potentially having to "seek out" a place to charge.
http://www.teslamotors.com/de_DE/forum/forums/free-supercharges-strategic-mistake
 

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thinking at tesla will be it's a radical 'big picture' idea that punches way above its weight in media traction/capturing hearts and minds vs what it actually costs to implement. and the actual free energy cost to the business will be peanuts (seem to remember last marketing blurb said theyd delivered 10million miles of ev charging in 3 months to oct... sounds alot but be surprised if costing them much more than £50k a month which wouldnt even buy one single page advert in uk national newspaper). it's a great example of high perceived value, low actual cost promotion (like air miles). i'd argue it's a very well executed strategy - it's relatively easy traditional tech/implementation (unlike the expensive business of developing /producing ev's!) - everyone thinks that they will use it more than they actually do - and of course it's self limiting anyway as there are only so many bays, and tesla have absolute control over when/if they introduce pricing.
 

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Just to be clear, although my car does think it's in Spain (as I think all UK cars do, it defaults to www.google.es) that post wasn't me :D

I am fully onside with him though, but I suspect looking at how the guy is being attacked on the Tesla forums I'll keep my head down.

I posted about hitting 195 miles in my 60, and stated it read 155miles on a 90% charge... I felt like I was being accused of making it up. :rolleyes:

I posted a screenshot of the Chrome plug-in proving it, but of course it's not genuine Tesla app, so it must be wrong, and I should instead post a photo of the cars dash off to Tesla and log it as a bug...

I'm not daft, Tesla know full well the range calc. under reads on the European 60's, why they'd do that is anyone's guess ;)
 

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Who cares if you want to charge on a long drive so be it, if your ok with burning petrol so be it, so it comes down to some people will some people don't
 

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thinking at tesla will be it's a radical 'big picture' idea that punches way above its weight in media traction/capturing hearts and minds vs what it actually costs to implement. and the actual free energy cost to the business will be peanuts (seem to remember last marketing blurb said theyd delivered 10million miles of ev charging in 3 months to oct... sounds alot but be surprised if costing them much more than £50k a month which wouldnt even buy one single page advert in uk national newspaper). it's a great example of high perceived value, low actual cost promotion (like air miles). i'd argue it's a very well executed strategy - it's relatively easy traditional tech/implementation (unlike the expensive business of developing /producing ev's!) - everyone thinks that they will use it more than they actually do - and of course it's self limiting anyway as there are only so many bays, and tesla have absolute control over when/if they introduce pricing.
Alan really like your point about the cost for the electricity vs. the press coverage they get.

I guess the small spanner in the works is what happens in London, as you say it's self limiting with the number of bays. The utilisation rates will be much higher, due to the lack of off street charging a lot of owners face. This effectively links the number of Superchargers to how many cars they can sell into the capital. The demand will be peaky, and is bound to lead to congestion.

Personally I think Tesla would have been better off doing a deal with NCP to offer heavily reduced parking with charging as a means to solve this problem.

I have a flat in London with no parking, I did contemplate buying a Q-Park season ticket, which at £600+VAT a year (they do a big EV discount) would be cheaper than an upgrade to Supercharging for me.

The only spanner in the works is the EV bays are time limited, and the nearest one is two miles from the flat.

Out of interest does anyone know how the Westfield SC is holding up now it's dealing with all the demand from the offline Hyatt?
 

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One driver's experience. :)

I don't think that will be typical once there is a good charger network. Why should it be? If charging fees are reasonable (or free) and charging is fast enough, then people will choose the most convenient and/or cheapest way depending on their personal priorities.

There may be times when an ICE, or even better a PHEV :) is more suitable for a particular trip and this may remain the case for some considerable time. How long? Who knows but it could be decades while the rapid charging networks are built.
 

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I believe Kevin is quoting an extract from another owner.
I suspect this may be the case - however, there was no clue in the post that he was doing this. It looked 100% as if he was speaking for himself about his own personal experiences.
 

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On a serious note, the two times I've driven distances that required away from home charging, like the poster on TMC, I've been torn.

Even if there was a SC within 5 miles of my destination, I would have wasted the best part of an hour what with traffic and sat waiting for a charge, only to still have to go and find somewhere to park the car overnight. So I'd still be inclined to take the ICE.

A simple row of commando sockets along a wall in a car park would be soo much better for me.

I'd even pay a premium for it, so the car park could tier their parking tariff, so "serviced bays" were more expensive, this would stop (or at least
dissuade) them getting ICEd.
 

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Not at all. The "free" superchargers help them sell cars. Besides they aren't really free, the cost is rolled into price of the cars.

I had a brief conversation with someone else waiting for a test drive and the location of the free superchargers was his first question.


Even with an 80 mile car we mostly charge at home. If we had a MS, I'd need a SC even less often then I need the electric highway now. The longest trip we typically drive is home to Manchester Airport. 92 miles each way.

To make this trip in our LEAF requires 4 charges. It would be 2 or 3 if there was a better placed rapid. An S85 can make the trip without recharging. TBH, I'd probably stop in at the Warrington SC on the way back but mostly because I'd want a break anyway.
 

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So taking my own usage of superchargers as an example, some people will use more some will use less, however we need a data point to examine

Lets assume £2000 of the cost of the car is for supercharger power, the cost of install of the hardware will be written off by Tesla over a few years but to keep it simple lets say the £2k is for electricity

@12p kwh thats roughly 16,667 kwh of power
lets assume average model S comes in half empty and takes approximately 40kwh per charge

I use a supercharger on average once a month, so divide by 12 and you get roughly 34 years of charging for your money

So even multiplying the charing by 3 or 4 (assuming a heavier user than me) does not make a serious dent, I suspect Tesla are making money from supercharging
 

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Even with an 80 mile car we mostly charge at home. If we had a MS, I'd need a SC even less often then I need the electric highway now. The longest trip we typically drive is home to Manchester Airport. 92 miles each way.


I'd love a park, charge and fly option for trips like this.

I live about the same distance away from MCR, and on the way home I'm generally a bit grumpy, the kids and wife asleep in the car, so I just drive it all in one hit,. I really wouldn't want to stop.

Stopping on the way there would be OK-ish, but obviously you run a risk of a queue at the SC. Even in my 60 I could cover the round trip (vampire losses aside), but would have to be a little restrained. (I have proved this)

I know Tesla in West Drayton offer valet parking for this sort of thing, not sure if Birmingham do?

As I have proved Stansted is a black hole currently (I know the ZCW point is a possibility, but I'd have to a deal with the hotel directly)

And as for EMA forget it :D (Though it's close enough to not worry about).

Lets assume £2000 of the cost of the car is for supercharger power, the cost of install of the hardware will be written off by Tesla over a few years but to keep it simple lets say the £2k is for electricity


I suspect the £2k notional figure, which I agree with btw, is going more toward interest payments ground rents, than the electricity. (Yes I know in the states there is demand for the SCs by land-owners, not sure we are there yet though)

Not sure how much an SC costs to install, but I've heard some very big numbers :(


 

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I
I suspect the £2k notional figure, which I agree with btw, is going more toward interest payments ground rents, than the electricity. (Yes I know in the states there is demand for the SCs by land-owners, not sure we are there yet though)

Not sure how much an SC costs to install, but I've heard some very big numbers :(
Agree however I was told by one of the SC team I met when they were installing at Canary Wharf that they dont pay for the land the offer is to bring Tesla customers to the site, I can see that working if your desired demographic is telsa customers.

They could just be living off the interest, if you sell 50,000 cars put the 2k from each in the bank and the interest alone probably covers the electricity costs :)
 

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Agree however I was told by one of the SC team I met when they were installing at Canary Wharf that they dont pay for the land the offer is to bring Tesla customers to the site, I can see that working if your desired demographic is telsa customers.

They could just be living off the interest, if you sell 50,000 cars put the 2k from each in the bank and the interest alone probably covers the electricity costs :)
Yep agree too, the Canary Wharf site is prime Tesla territory ;)

I guess my point is the repayments on the CAPEX of the SC installs. I'd heard 5 figure minimums, but I guess that's where they don't have sufficient supply for 135kW, and why using spare capacity from hotels is working so well for them atm.
 

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I'd love a park, charge and fly option for trips like this.

I live about the same distance away from MCR, and on the way home I'm generally a bit grumpy, the kids and wife asleep in the car, so I just drive it all in one hit,. I really wouldn't want to stop.

Stopping on the way there would be OK-ish, but obviously you run a risk of a queue at the SC. Even in my 60 I could cover the round trip (vampire losses aside), but would have to be a little restrained. (I have proved this)

I know Tesla in West Drayton offer valet parking for this sort of thing, not sure if Birmingham do?

As I have proved Stansted is a black hole currently (I know the ZCW point is a possibility, but I'd have to a deal with the hotel directly)

And as for EMA forget it :D (Though it's close enough to not worry about).



I suspect the £2k notional figure, which I agree with btw, is going more toward interest payments ground rents, than the electricity. (Yes I know in the states there is demand for the SCs by land-owners, not sure we are there yet though)

Not sure how much an SC costs to install, but I've heard some very big numbers :(
SC in the short stay or pick up/drop off car park area at airports sounds like a good idea.....
 

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SC in the short stay or pick up/drop off car park area at airports sounds like a good idea.....
Nowhere near as appealing as a long stay with "valet" charging ;)

I know Edinburgh does actually have a Supercharger, unfortunately it's a destination airport for me ;)
 
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