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Tesla Model S
Tesla Model S D70
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, I have owned my Hyundai Kona Electric Premium 39kWh since its launch in September '18 and have been very happy with it on my daily 104 mile motorway commute; odometer now at 6500miles.
A month ago I had a slow puncture in the offside rear tyre that would report 31psi after four days from 36psi and on inspection was not repairable. Unfortunately, since the tyre change the ESC frequently blinks and adds sensation impacting steering and speed.
The Owner's Manual advises that driving with different wheel and tyre sizes may cause the ESC system to malfunction, but they are not different sizes or brand. The original tyres are like new [I haven't been wheel spinning :eek:) ]
The original Nexen N Fera SU1 215/55 R17 94V was replaced a Nexen N Fera SU1 215/55 R17 98W; I hadn't noticed the different load index until closer inspection following this ESC problem.
I have the car booked in with the tyre centre on Saturday (now Thursday) for them to look at but I'd suspect they'll advise they complied with the owners manual, then it'll be off to the dealer with a car behaviour they'll most likely be unfamiliar with, and so before I'm thrown from pillar to post has anyone else experienced this behaviour?
 

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The load/speed rating isn't massively different, but the higher load/speed rated tyre will be ever so slightly stiffer.

Best bet would be to swap back two wheels to the front and see if that stops the issue. If it does then you know the problem. Always best to fit any new tyres in matched pairs.
 

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Tesla Model S
Tesla Model S D70
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72 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for taking the time to reply Paul. 98W is marked on the new tyre wall and that is the only obvious difference from the original set marked 94V. On a V speed index the Nexen tyre is available on 94 or 98 (both summer tyres).
It's a coincidence the fault materialised when the tyre was changed as even when it reported low pressure on the 94 the ESC behaved.
 

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The tyre pressure drop you mentioned wouldn't cause the ESC any issue. The tyre carcass stiifness/flex difference could make a finely tuned system error.

My old German 4x4 warned of the appocalypse if you had any mismatch in rubber. Even a millimeter or 2 in tread depth can cause issues.
 

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Tesla Model S
Tesla Model S D70
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72 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The load/speed rating isn't massively different, but the higher load/speed rated tyre will be ever so slightly stiffer.

Best bet would be to swap back two wheels to the front and see if that stops the issue. If it does then you know the problem. Always best to fit any new tyres in matched pairs.
Thanks, If the tyre centre don't offer to match a new tyre with the original set I'll ask them to swap the wheels as you suggested to support an investigation. The new tryre is on the right but the sensation of control feels from the left so they could swap the sides too :eek:)
They are a Nexen main dealer.

Thanks :eek:))
 

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Tesla Model S
Tesla Model S D70
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72 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks, If the tyre centre don't offer to match a new tyre with the original set I'll ask them to swap the wheels as you suggested to support an investigation. The new tryre is on the right but the sensation of control feels from the left so they could swap the sides too :eek:)
They are a Nexen main dealer.

Thanks :eek:))
...Sorry I'm getting old intended smiles turned into odd emojis :)
 

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Tesla Model S
Tesla Model S D70
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72 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
OK , I'll keep updating this thread should any other owners experience similar faults as this has now progressed into further failures that are likely connected as linked to the cars intelligent safety feature set.
  • Since mid-December ’18 I have experienced intermittent ESC blinking, clicking and sensation. It was typically experienced on incline and decline slight bends on the M4 but this later extended onto the dual carriage way running from the M4 into Swansea.
  • Hyundai Recovery and Hyundai Dealer Techs advised the tyre load is fine; it is only an issue if a lighter load rating is fitted. so I cancelled the tyre centre appointment.
  • Aside from the issue above, during the commute home on the 03/01/19 the battery meter reflected two red and two white bars just outside Newport (normal at that point in the journey) but the car reported entering “Recuperation” with power reduction.
  • During the commute into work on the 04/01/19 in an instant the car experienced multiple failures; Below is a picture of the Dash as it persisted until cleared by Hyundai Rescue (AA) at about 14:30’ish prior to me driving it to Hyundai (Swansea). I mentioned the messages had cleared and the AA assured me that Hyundai would be able to read them but that was not the case. The picture does not reflect all issues as paddle regen was totally lost as was the ability to select resistance using paddles (ie only foot brake without regen available).
    Speedometer Auto part Gauge Odometer Measuring instrument
  • The vehicle was returned on the 09/01/2019 following a Kona software update at Hyundai (Swansea updated but had been in contact with Hyundai Tech) but the early symptoms have returned. They re-occurred four times on my commute home from the dealer and again five times on my commute into work this morning. I sent a ESC reporting video into Click to Buy recorded at one of the predictable occurrences’ but it's 80mb so not posting here.
  • The dash “Recuperation” notice hasn’t cleared since the 03/01/19 and is constantly reported (I tried switching “Auto Recuperation” on/off but this does not clear the “Recuperation” notice). My real range appears reduced since this appeared too.
Given it's dangerous to have the steering fight you in a "skid" that doesn't exist on slight bends and has been in for repair once but returned still failing I checked my consumer rights with Which Legal and LV Legal. I really do like the car so have agreed for the Kona to go back into Hyundai on the 14/01/19 when Swansea Tech and Hyundai Techs have assured me it will be resolved before return.

I'll let you know how this progresses....
 

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Tyres should be replaced in pairs across axles, even a minor difference in tread depth will cause ESC problems you describe as the car is trying to keep the wheels spinning the same despite their physical difference.

Regen is disable to allow ESC systems to work - this is common across all EVd
 

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although the small tyre difference shouldn't matter, I am wondering whether the ESC is overly sensitive, or there's some other fault being triggered?
 

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This is something completely different - all those problems are symptoms and point to a wiring loom problem, most likely a trapped or broken wire or connector. All of those things going wrong means connectivity has been lost to the main ECU, or the 12V battery's dead.
 

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even a minor difference in tread depth will cause ESC problems you describe as the car is trying to keep the wheels spinning the same despite their physical difference
I don't see how this can be true. When cornering (which surely is the point of ESC) all 4 wheels will be, and need to be, turning at different speeds with respect to each other. I also doubt that, with the sampling rate required to implement ESC, it would be possible to determine wheel speed to a level of accuracy that would be affected by a minor difference in tread depth.

My experience of triggering BMW DSC is that it is a pretty unsubtle experience close to cadence braking and therefore involving high rates of change in wheel rotation speeds.
 

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I don't see how this can be true. When cornering (which surely is the point of ESC)
...
My experience of triggering BMW DSC is that it is a pretty unsubtle experience close to cadence braking and therefore involving high rates of change in wheel rotation speeds.
The later symptoms suggest a more sinister wiring problem granted

I’ve seen it on several BMWs and Outlander was very prone to it too. Hence the big warning box on manual, outlander general precipitates as a loss of regen as wheels disagree with road conditions - car thinks it’s losing traction on one wheel.
 

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Tesla Model S
Tesla Model S D70
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72 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Agreed with Hyundai UK that I would return the car to the dealer 14/01/19 and Hyundai UK tech would provide dedicated support locally if necessary; that is good support and can't ask for more.
Unfortunately on Monday morning I was welcomed to a cluster that was blank where the speedometer is expected, "P" for Park displayed even when in Drive and Reverse and the 100% battery icon frozen where the information details are normally presented.
Car Vehicle Auto part Speedometer Mid-size car

The above persisted even switching the engine on/off and taking an initial short drive; after 50 mile commute the dash remained blank; I used my phone to advise driving speed. The ESC blinking, sensation and clicking occurred during the journey. After work I took the car to the dealer (the cluster display had refreshed for that journey 8 hours later).

Hyundai tech attended the dealer and experienced the ESC problem. He took the replaced tyre off and fitted one off another Kona EV and there was no more issue, now before you get too excited (as I did) he put the replaced tyre back on and still no more issue - so inclusive. He did point me to owners guide section 7-30 where it has the tyre as 215/55 R17 94V as originally fitted but under detail "94 - Load Index, a numerical code associated with the maximum load the tyre can carry" and as Hyundai and the AA advised previously its ok to go higher. That said 7-32(6) does state "When replacing the tyres on the vehicle, always use a tyre that has the same load rating as the factory installed tyre".
On the commute home the "ESC" issue came back.

So a call to the NEXEN tyre dealer to relay the Hyundai Tech suspicion to the tyre dealer and they agreed to replace with the 94V. Unfortunately when it didn't show on their system they approached their leading supplier of Nexen tyres who confirmed the Nexen Nfera SU1 94V XL (original) is no longer available to order and it has now been replaced with a Nexen Nfera SU1 98W X (as replaced) so its back to Hyundai. If this is in fact the cause of the issue, this Nexen advice will impact all Kona owners when a replacing their tyres through wear or puncture. Why dispatch a new car on obsolete tyres, don't they work closely together as partners?

Aside: the punctured tyre was on the rear and had three months use before being replaced. The original and replacement rear tyres measured 6mm in January though it was possible to find a maximum of 1mm difference between them as easy as it was to find matching values.

I asked how the tyre could affect the cluster area issue (above) and was advised there is a recall for a cluster software update that has now been applied ahead of letters going out.

I am impressed with Hyundai and their recalls its very positive to see a manufacturer own issues and fix them; Land Rover were good with that too (a friend had a Renault with brake failure issues and couldn't get that resolved until a cheap fix could be found for a recall).

The "Recuperation" message is still displayed too.

Thanks for the updates provided by the community and must admit the wiring problem sounds more likely after the blank display, but let's see
 

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The above suggests that all Konas will require the "cluster update" and I note you suggest that Hyundai deserve credit for contacting owners, but as I've mentioned elsewhere, I have received no contact whatsoever about any update, recall or whatever.
If there is an issue that I should be aware of, then unlike the above, I'm not impressed with the process given that they already have our emails.
Even if we don't need software upgrades or hardware, there should at least have been an advisory sent out regarding what does or does not constitute an acceptable replacement tyre.
 

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Tesla Model S
Tesla Model S D70
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Apologies I should have said there is "to be" a recall….that fix is effectively hot off the download press; it's a software update, give Hyundai a chance to perform a mailing. Just in consideration of Hyundai not all cars receive all updates, some already running different versions and not all drivers experience the same problems; I wouldn't wish the issues I have on anyone. The Tech didn't say the software fix was actually for the cluster issue I had experienced just that the latest software is now on my car and when the letter arrives not to panic as it has been applied. At Land Rover all my software updates were applied when attending LR for a service. If you are not experiencing any problems you may be better to stay on the version you're on until a few more Guinea pigs have tested it in the real word. Good luck with the Kona;)
 
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