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Renault Zoe 50
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Discussion Starter #1
Tesla have started releasing the FSD capability to early Beta testers:


Looks pretty awesome.

Elon is putting the price of FSD up to $10,000.

I wonder when it will get to Europe?
 

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I wonder what I'm missing

The left turn across traffic does seems new, but otherwise it just seems like lots of jittery dots on the screen.

Can someone explain to me why its sooooo much better? I know the 4D thing etc, but the fanfare some are giving it I'd have expected hand brake turns into parking spaces, merging into traffic on motorways etc.

He's also suggested the price will only go up in the US and not in countries where the extra bells and whistles can;t be used.
 

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Is this new Beta actually an entirely separate codebase to the current public release?

It seems odd that they've been quietly developing this new system in the background, whilst continually shipping updates to the "legacy" product?

Or is it an evolution of the existing codebase - that is, finally shipping all the features that have been in development on the current codebase?

I have no doubt that this form of FSD - whether it's all new or an evolution - will lead to publicly-available FSD in the states in the next year or so. Europe and the UK... it'll take a while longer.
 

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I believe its now also optimised for HW3 which probably means it won't run on HW2.5 and below. It will be interesting to see what now happens to cars with AP and EAP and running the lower HW versions going forwards - I suspect the amount of development for them will be limited.
 

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Renault Zoe 50
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Discussion Starter #6
I believe its now also optimised for HW3 which probably means it won't run on HW2.5 and below.
That was my understanding, and Tesla would retrofit HW3 if you bought FSD and it was released in your region.
 

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I suddenly have more faith in Tesla's claims.

The current AP with its bolted-on FSD features felt a mile away from something that was capable of driving on urban streets. It felt like a motorway lane-assist system trying to deal with urban traffic (which we now know it was), and didn't inspire confidence in the future.

This new version actually backs up some of the bold claims we've been seeing these last few years. Perhaps I'll revisit Tesla when I'm 40-odd.
 

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Bit of realism coming....have had FSD for nearly a year, I knew it would be a waste of money, but couldn't help myself! Even on motorways, other motorists around you must assume you're either too old to be driving, driving without a licence, or drunk, or possibly a combination thereof. I'm only allowed to try it when I'm on my own as it scares the pants off the rest of the family.
Happy to eat a broad selection of hats if this new release is anything but rubbish. In fact judging by the unusual care with which they're rolling it out, it must be freaking lethal. Will be great when you can sit back and watch a movie, but judging by the progress over the last 6 years (can you believe its been 6 years since AP1.... oh all the promises...) I won't ever be doing that in this car.
 

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The new version is an entirely separate codebase. If you watch the video, the difference is night and day.

I agree that current AP with FSD features is lacking in many ways, but it’s not an accurate reflection of this new super-secret version they’ve been working on.
 

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Renault Zoe 50
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Discussion Starter #10
I agree that current AP with FSD features is lacking in many ways,
There’s no such thing. It’s always been clear that FSD hasn’t been delivered yet, only ‘coming soon’.
 

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No you haven’t. You might have paid for it in advance, to be delivered at some date in the future.
Agreed, but that's not really the point. The point was that this might be quite a big step but its one step on a very long road, and by the time I sell the car in a few years time I don't expect to have had any value from c£6k outlay. And anyone weighing up currently whether to take the plunge could usefully be aware of that.
 

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There’s no such thing. It’s always been clear that FSD hasn’t been delivered yet, only ‘coming soon’.
Cmon, that’s clearly not true. The visualisations, stopping for traffic control and sign recognition have clearly been ported across from the new stack to the legacy one.

The current AP stack isn’t FSD, but it’s certainly taken a few features from it for testing purposes.

The FSD stack is clearly revolutionary. I don’t know why Tesla weren’t clearer that “coming soon” meant “on a new codebase”.

A lot of the detractors (myself included) have been basing their opinions off the current stack, assuming this is (at least close to) the current state of progress - which, thankfully, has turned out not to be true.
 

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Renault Zoe 50
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Discussion Starter #15
Agreed, but that's not really the point. The point was that this might be quite a big step but its one step on a very long road, and by the time I sell the car in a few years time I don't expect to have had any value from c£6k outlay. And anyone weighing up currently whether to take the plunge could usefully be aware of that.
I suspect you are correct.

But you might get some NoA and self parking improvements, which could be handy.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I don’t know why Tesla weren’t clearer that “coming soon” meant “on a new codebase”.
Not just a new code base, but new processor hardware.

They’re not going to air all their dirty laundry, but Elon has tweeted about this quite a bit.
 

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I think it’s because they were planning to port all the features back to the legacy stack for consumer use one-by-one but realised fairly late on that it wouldn’t be possible - so have decided to switch to the new stack wholesale.
 

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When the EU stop blocking it to help BMW, VW et al to catch up;)
Maybe that will be an upside of Brexit: leaving the EU and being free to allow FSD.

I remember seeing in the news that the UK seems keen on adopting autonomous driving.
 

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I wonder what I'm missing

The left turn across traffic does seems new, but otherwise it just seems like lots of jittery dots on the screen.

Can someone explain to me why its sooooo much better? I know the 4D thing etc, but the fanfare some are giving it I'd have expected hand brake turns into parking spaces, merging into traffic on motorways etc.

He's also suggested the price will only go up in the US and not in countries where the extra bells and whistles can;t be used.
I was impressed by the way it seems to be driving around parked cars in narrow(ish) American roads.

In my opinion the new software seems to be a massive jump from a good TACC + Autosteer heavily reliant on lane markings and unable to deal with anything outside this scope to a good understanding of the environment and capable decision making.

I guess we will know more from the next wave of videos.
 

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The FSD stack is clearly revolutionary. I don’t know why Tesla weren’t clearer that “coming soon” meant “on a new codebase”.
In January Elon described it as a "foundational rewrite". There have been multiple references to this "core rewrite" and work on "core foundation code" since. I don't think it was hidden in any way.
 
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