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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Check out this Cleantechnica article on a new graphene-based battery tech:

Graphene Could Kill Lithium-Ion Batteries

Headline features:
- Can theoretically hold 10 x energy density of current best Li-ion batteries.
- Faster charging capability

10 x Leaf capacity would give you near 1000 mile range! :eek:

The future of EV's looks so good if manufacturers can achieve better than ICE range.
:)
 

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Zoe Devotee
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If normal leaf range is up to 90miles how does that suddenly equate to 1000miles when multiplied by 10. leafonomics in action, you should get a job with Nissan.
 

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The headline could read Graphine will kill the ICE. (but that is supposing that this new battery type can produce over 500 miles per charge, with reliability and low cost)
I'm not going to get excited until the headline changes to will.
 

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As I say to anyone who I meet who is working on some battery tech well down the TRL scale: "call me back when you got a prototype".
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I am genuinely taken back at the negativity of responses to this.

Are you really uninterested in battery tech - on an electric car forum, seriously? :rolleyes:


Graphene is only a recently discovered 'super material' that has incredible potential, yes these capabilities arent going to land in production tomorrow (sorry about that @Sandy ), but it credits interest & discussion in an EV forum.

We're not all here to disuss the colours of our cars and how big the glove compartment is, surely? o_O

@Sandy - I'm not sure what school you went to, but 100 x 10 is 1,000.
It's entirely possible to get 100 miles in a leaf, I consistently get 4.7 m/kWh, which is right up there around the 100 miles mark.

But my point wasnt about precise numbers, getting anywhere in the multi-hundred miles range, with a small battery, is a phenomenal possibility, and to electric car owner/enthusiast, is fascinating.
 
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Driving yet another EV!
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I am genuinely taken back at the negativity of responses to this.

Are you really uninterested in battery tech - on an electric car forum, seriously? :rolleyes:
Try this...

You have a friend that owes you some money (probably because you helped him out when he was in a bind) and he promises to pay you back next week because he has a big deal in the offing that will pay off big-time. Actually, not only will he pay you back, with interest, but he will take you out for a fancy meal to say thanks for being such a great friend.

Next week comes and that deal didn't turn out so hot, but hey, he's got an even better deal that will pay at least as much and they you will see.

And that week, guess what... things are still awkward, but the first deal looks like it may be back on... that second deal... ah, well, looks like it might not be as good. You'll get that money next week, don't worry.

The following week... well... you know how this goes.
 

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I am genuinely taken back at the negativity of responses to this.

Are you really uninterested in battery tech - on an electric car forum, seriously? :rolleyes:


Graphene is only a recently discovered 'super material' that has incredible potential, yes these capabilities arent going to land in production tomorrow (sorry about that @Sandy ), but it credits interest & discussion in an EV forum.

We're not all here to disuss the colours of our cars and how big the glove compartment is, surely? o_O

@Sandy - I'm not sure what school you went to, but 100 x 10 is 1,000.
It's entirely possible to get 100 miles in a leaf, I consistently get 4.7 m/kWh, which is right up there around the 100 miles mark.

But my point wasnt about precise numbers, getting anywhere in the multi-hundred miles range, with a small battery, is a phenomenal possibility, and to electric car owner/enthusiast, is fascinating.
Your right this is fascinating.

Bosch recently acquired SEEO and their solid state battery prototypes.

BMW is all-in with Samsung SDI and NTU in Singapore trying to scale up nanotechnology enabled Lithium batteries.

VW was due to make a decision this year on whether to go with Quantumscape solid state batteries.

Things are now rapidly changing in the battery world.
 

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Battery technology has proved hugely difficult to improve on for well over a hundred years. There have been many promises and few deliveries. But we have seen a step change with Lithium and further improvement is possible if we understand the processes better. So long as we do not expect something like a 3-3-3 battery too soon or without the long march to take something out of the lab and turn it into an economical manufactured product with life time guarantees then we can be hopeful. Optimism, tempered by realism, might be the stance of the majority of the technology watchers and early adopters that frequent Speak EV. Gushing press releases sadly tend to over promise in the world of battery technology.
 

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Leaf lover
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I am genuinely taken back at the negativity of responses to this.
Well, it is all part of the EV YAWN.

I am surely not alone in noticing the lack of import to ev forums from a number of notable members.
It is that having lived with ev for a several years they have come to accept/embrace the limitations of current ev and grown disillusioned by the charging infrastructure.
Where range is concerned, enough is as good as a PHEV.
On this forum and others we have built the myth that range is everything.
We have also accepted the myth that electric cars cost more to produce than ice cars.
Nissan/Renault know that on the right terms the Leaf and Zoe sell well but until another manufacturer needs to up their game in the motoring market place and provide real BEV competition, things are going to just plod along.
How well the market takes to the 30 kwh Leaf may well determine how soon or if at all we see the next generation Leaf.
 

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It's entirely possible to get 100 miles in a leaf, I consistently get 4.7 m/kWh, which is right up there around the 100 miles mark.
Unfortunately you have to factor in the approx 10% loss (heat) when you transfer energy out of the battery before you consume it as power in the inverter and motor. So with a tip top LEAF battery offering you say 21kWh capacity (3 kWh being held back that you cannot access) you can actually draw about 19 kWh. Driving at 4.7 m/kWh yields 89 miles and you would need to drive at 5.3 m/kWh to get 100 miles on a full charge. This is possible but demanding and speed limiting.

When you take into account the 10% loss out getting energy out of battery (it reduces with rising battery temperature - which is why there is some win back with motorway driving at sustained higher speeds and an elevated battery temperature) while the GOM does respond strongly to the most recent driving, it is perhaps overall more accurate than we might have wished.
 

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@Mr_G : losses caused by heat will be significantly less when your battery is 10 times as big... Unless you go for sub-1 second acceleration of course ;)
The battery losses as a percentage depend on the internal resistance and that is dependent on the cell design not the overall (size) capacity of the battery. If you have a battery that is 10x capacity and you draw the same current as before, the current can be drawn for 10x as long but while you are doing so the efficiency loss is unchanged as a percentage.
 

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I think the point is being overlooked here.

If graphene really can deliver ten times the capacity then that's great. Whether that's actually 1000 miles or only 900 is irrelevant.
What's most likely to happen is cars will be fitted with half size/ half cost batteries to give a perfectly acceptable range of 450/500 miles.

Personally I'd prefer to see active charging on all major roads and a small battery for "off grid" driving.
 

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Leaf lover
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I think the point is being overlooked here.

If graphene really can deliver ten times the capacity then that's great. Whether that's actually 1000 miles or only 900 is irrelevant.
What's most likely to happen is cars will be fitted with half size/ half cost batteries to give a perfectly acceptable range of 450/500 miles.

Personally I'd prefer to see active charging on all major roads and a small battery for "off grid" driving.
You make a very good point as far as everyday ev like the Leaf but we all know when you have the range to spare, you use the power available for the fun of it.
The availability of high capacity batteries will open up the variety of models on the market.
But none of that is going to happen for some while and as I said earlier, how the market takes to the 30 kwh Leaf could be interesting and reinforce the point that range is not everything.
I certainly like the idea of my lovely gen1 Leaf being upgraded with a new 24 kwh battery that only weighs in at a few kilos.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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Sticking a lighter battery in a car designed to cope with the heavier battery won't make it a better handling car nor much longer ranged sadly.

In Zoe to get more than 100 miles you need to do more than 5.0mpkwh. Zoe you get access to all 22kwh of available energy. I believe in Leaf its less.

 
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