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Are you interested in heading off the EV Charging profiteers

  • No

    Votes: 5 31.3%
  • Probably not

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Yes but I would only be interested in using not owning it.

    Votes: 5 31.3%
  • Yes, I would be happy to be a co-op member CIC associate etc. with no/token upfront cost

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Yes I would be happy to pay a monthly membership to cover not for profit infrastructure development.

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • Yes I would be happy to get involved in setting up/running it.

    Votes: 2 12.5%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With the fossil fuel mega's sensing time up, they are starting to move into EV charging.
They will want to retain their margins

The only chance of enabling EV Charging to reflect fair cost of use will be to have a large player that uses a not for profit structure and that is able to resist the temptation to get bought up.

The Government has to let a licence to do charging at motorway service stations soon.
The fossil mega's will do everything they can to get that licence.
The only way to avoid that will be to have a strong entity already set up.

I am wondering if anyone else would be interested in getting involved in doing the research and setting up a co-op or other non-profit?

I'm thinking the co-op structure would lend itself best to what's needed?
Thoughts, knowledge and expressions of interest keenly sought!
 

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It's too late already. This needed to have been done 5 years ago, and it wouldn't have survived if it had, due to lack of usage. Your intentions are good, but realistically, you don't stand a chance of doing anything significant in the market. I wish this wasn't the case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It's too late already. This needed to have been done 5 years ago, and it wouldn't have survived if it had, due to lack of usage. Your intentions are good, but realistically, you don't stand a chance of doing anything significant in the market. I wish this wasn't the case.
Hmm, sadly I think you are probably right, Whatever a community owned organisation could do for a licence, the Fossil fuel mega's could outdo, money, lobbying, mates in the right cabinet offices etc etc.
But I don't think it should stop us trying, it's the last possible moment it will be even slightly possible, a once in a generation opportunity and it would have such a huge impact it's got to be worth investigating. I respect your realism though.
 

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I'd think a for charity charging company might work better than a not for profit. It has more emotional leverage too.
 

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There's a huge difference between the sale of fossil fuels and electricity for cars at present. Virtually all fossil fuel for cars is bought away from home at a combination of service stations. At present the majority of electricity is purchased at home, and even when bought away from home is purchased from "slow" or "fast" chargers rather than the Rapids that you are discussing. Whether this changes as ownership widens is open to question, particularly when ownership for people without home or workplace charging happens but hence the interest in onstreet parking from the legacy companies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'd think a for charity charging company might work better than a not for profit. It has more emotional leverage too.
I agree 100% from an emotional point of view, but I believe this is going to become a very hot very commercial space very soon. I think the flexibility of organisational structures of Co-op/CIC would allow the business side that will be necessary to compete in winning initial licences.

It would be necessary to raise considerable capital to get into the game at this stage, as Pilotwoo wisely pointed out the fossil giants are skin in the game now and they have the resources and experience to play very very dirty, I suspect a charity wouldn't stand a chance against that... not that any user owned structure necessarily would. I'm hoping Pilotwoo is somewhat pessimistic, I suspect that view is closer to right than I want to admit tho.

I'll be interested to see what others think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
There's a huge difference between the sale of fossil fuels and electricity for cars at present. Virtually all fossil fuel for cars is bought away from home at a combination of service stations. At present the majority of electricity is purchased at home, and even when bought away from home is purchased from "slow" or "fast" chargers rather than the Rapids that you are discussing. Whether this changes as ownership widens is open to question, particularly when ownership for people without home or workplace charging happens but hence the interest in onstreet parking from the legacy companies.
Longer term in town points would be desirable, but the dire shortage that the government are planning to address soon is the Motorway service area charging. 2 points is nowhere near enough now even if both are working!

I'm thinking about the volume of relatively low range used vehicles that will be on the road in 6/7yrs or so, there will be many with the range to do as most do now, but there will be a whole other market of "Bangers" to mis-appropriate an ICE term! They will need to top up to do any kind of medium/long journey and speaking as one with a 24kWh Leaf, it's already getting crowded at the chargers, 18months ago I could add 20/30mins for charging to my journey time, now I've got to factor in the 40min wait for a charger on top, or quick stop twice to allow me range in hand to get to the next if the first point I get to has only just started charging.
 

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I'm with you on the increase in Rapid usage and associated difficulties in a low range car, but there's lots of people who never venture far who will be able to avoid using Rapids.
 

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Rapids at every existing petrol station in 10 to 20 years time. How that happens, god knows. I just wish the transition is fast and smooth, but that isn't a UK thing traditionally unfortunately.

The smaller, rural local petrol stations will not be able to afford seeing up multiple rapids I'm guessing, maybe there is where a co-op style business that works with local none-big stations will work out?
 

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Charge My Street kind of fits that criteria - www.chargemystreet.co.uk

I’d imagine most of the Charge Point Operators are currently making a loss on the charging side of their business.
Making themselves lose money by not repairing chargers promptly, not installing enough points at each location and in some cases being to costly to use. (so EV owners boycott them.)
 

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I will not be at all surprised for Tesla to open up the (CCS wielding) supercharger network at some point. They've got many locations, MANY chargers per location, and seem to make money (and of course they can charge i.e. 50p/kwh to non Teslas). If they can sort a recognition/payment model with OEMs it's a done deal. Honestly I wouldn't piddle about HOPING a shell recharge or lone isolated BP/polar/chargemaster/whatever they're called today rapid was a) working b) not in use c) giving full speed when I can just go somewhere else and be sure at least ONE supercharger is working.
 

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I will not be at all surprised for Tesla to open up the (CCS wielding) supercharger network at some point. They've got many locations, MANY chargers per location, and seem to make money (and of course they can charge i.e. 50p/kwh to non Teslas). If they can sort a recognition/payment model with OEMs it's a done deal. Honestly I wouldn't piddle about HOPING a shell recharge or lone isolated BP/polar/chargemaster/whatever they're called today rapid was a) working b) not in use c) giving full speed when I can just go somewhere else and be sure at least ONE supercharger is working.
I don't know why it's up to the OEM's that decide where we 'fuel' up our cars. Can you imagine that with petrol/diesel pumps? The OEM's should look at the Tesla superchargers as from an energy company, which Tesla are. They just do cars too.:LOL: Imagine if BP made cars.
 

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Because the real cost of network we need in the UK for full transition is billions of pounds. No one wants to pay for the "big bang" and no big corporates want to piddle round with small projects. You need a disruptor like Tesla to say "F it, we'll do our best, we'll make mistakes, we'll grow, we'll iterate." and ultimately? Dominate.
 

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I don't think Tesla will open up until the rest of the charging network is much closer to being up to scratch, at the moment it is arguably the number one selling point for their cars, they won't give this away, but it will gradually be eroded away as the wider network improves.
 
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