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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I've been using LEAF Spy PRO to gather some battery data from the College's Gen 2 LEAFs and I'm a wee bit concerned at what I'm seeing as the degradation figures seem to be excessive, particularly for Car 1. Here are the details. What are your thoughts? Is this level of degradation normal?

Car 1
ODO = 2714
SOH = 93%
QC = 14
L1/L2 = 85
263 GIDS
60.90 Ahr
Hx = 93.61%
389.04v

Voltages:
Min - 4.047v
Max - 4.060v
Avg - 4.052v

Journeys - 265*
Average Trip Distance - 4.9 miles*
*NB to end August 2014


Car 2
ODO = 2538
SOH = 96%
QC = 5
L1/L2 = 98
273 GIDS
62.86 Ahr
Hx = 96.65%
395.64v

Voltages:
Min - 4.115v
Max - 4.132v
Avg - 4.121v

Journeys - 179*
Average Trip Distance - 7.3 miles*
*NB to end August 2014


Car 3
ODO = 2442
SOH = 96%
QC = 5
L1/L2 = 79
271 GIDS
63.33 Ahr
Hx = 97.28%
395.19v

Voltages:
Min - 4.110v
Max - 4.123v
Avg - 4.117v

Journeys - 175*
Average Trip Distance - 5.8 miles*
*NB to end August 2014


Car 4
ODO = 2408
SOH = 99%
QC = 5
L1/L2 = 80
282 GIDS
65.00 Ahr
Hx = 99.55%
395.64v

Voltages:
Min - 4.115v
Max - 4.128v
Avg - 4.121v

Journeys - 147*
Average Trip Distance - 6.8 miles*
*NB to end August 2014

Interestingly, Car 4 appears to be the oldest one (going by chassis number), perhaps it is fitted with a different 'batch' of batteries?

Thanks,
Bob
 

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Interesting, you would have thought they would be all similar.

Just for your information a brand new LEAF is said to have 284 GIDS. I have 12,500 miles on the clock on my gen 2 and I have 278 GIDS at 100%. But this can fluctuate slightly with different ambient temperature and previous use of the car.

Were all your readings taken at 100% charge?
 

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Ah some are not charged to 100%. If you charge to 100% and take a reading of the GIDS. This is the amount of energy that is stored in the battery. From memory 1 GID = 80Wh.
 

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My Gen 1, just over 3 years old and with 25k has 61.4Ah. I wonder if Car1 is just used for a small trips and then put back on charge to 100%...?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Paul & Dean: The readings are all taken at a full charge. Unfortunately I didn't get the readings when the cars were delivered as I didn't have LEAF Spy then.

Edd: One of the things I tell every driver is to not bother plugging the LEAF in if the battery capacity is above 75%. However, the habit of opportunity charging at every opportunity is maybe a hard one to break.

On another note, one of our i-MiEV's was indicating a 94 mile range on a full charge the other day. It has done over 10k miles but the batteries don't appear to have degraded much. I would love it if someone created an i-MiEV Spy app.... :confused:
 

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Edd: One of the things I tell every driver is to not bother plugging the LEAF in if the battery capacity is above 75%. However, the habit of opportunity charging at every opportunity is maybe a hard one to break.
I'd turn on car wings and monitor when the cars are getting charged.


Recharging when the car is at or above 98% will damage the battery. Plugging in a car that is already charged is bad for the battery. As you know, Plugging in after every 4 or 5 mile trip isn't good for the pack either.

Is there a charging timer set? Leaving a car plugged in with the charge timer set will charge to 100% daily, even if the battery is already above 98%.



If people are plugging in despite being told not to, maybe you need to set the 'long life' mode.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Recharging when the car is at or above 98% will damage the battery. Plugging in a car that is already charged is bad for the battery.

Is there a charging timer set? Leaving a car plugged in with the charge timer set will charge to 100% daily, even if the battery is already above 98%.
No charging timer set on any of the cars.
 

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There is i-miev "spy", it's called canion. I'm not sure, but I think it's just for the Android, I have side loaded to my BlackBerry.
 

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On another note, one of our i-MiEV's was indicating a 94 mile range on a full charge the other day. It has done over 10k miles but the batteries don't appear to have degraded much. I would love it if someone created an i-MiEV Spy app.... :confused:
Was the last 15 miles driven before the charge all downhill?
As I understand it the range remaining readout is an extrapolation of how much energy was used over the preceding 15 miles.

Canion is Android only - there's loads of info on it over on the US i-MiEV forum.

not sure if this is allowed, but here's a link to the Canion thread on the US forum:

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1762

User "Priusfan" is the author of Canion as far as I know.
 

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My leaf had 284 gids, 'health' 101% when I picked it up (1500 miles).

Now it's on 24,000 ish miles & I'm seeing 263 - 269, 'health' 94%.

Obviously these 20 or so missing GIDS are making naff all difference to my range.

The discrepancy between 100% SOC indicated on the dash & leafspy's SOC indicator is also greater than it was before. Perhaps the BMS is squirreling some charge away somewhere to compensate for a wider balance need?
 

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They look slightly better than my mk2
ODO = 3086
SOH = 91%
QC = 126
L1/L2 = 83
251 GIDS
59.57 Ahr
Hx = 90.77%
392.79v

Voltages:
Min - 4.085v
Max - 4.106v
Avg - 4.092v

Wish I hadn't connected up Leafspy! Maybe this is normal then?
 

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They look slightly better than my mk2
ODO = 3086
SOH = 91%
QC = 126
L1/L2 = 83
251 GIDS
59.57 Ahr
Hx = 90.77%
392.79v

Voltages:
Min - 4.085v
Max - 4.106v
Avg - 4.092v

Wish I hadn't connected up Leafspy! Maybe this is normal then?
Our 2011 built, 2012 sold Gen 1 probably left tortured at 100% ex demo with 20,000 miles ODO can just beat that so interesting stats.

Can you give us a brief history of the car's use? Especially depth of discharge if it has ever been to turtle or well below VLBW and if so how recently.

It may be counter intuitive but that helps Leafspy read full capacity if done as it seems to force the cells to balance at the bottom end better and after I did it the capacity increased by over 1 Ah.
 

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I have only done about 1000 miles in it, the previous mileage was use as a demonstrator.
I just got down to VLBW the charge before last, for the first time, usually I charge up when it gets to about 25-30%
Maybe it didn't like the QC's, It had hardly any L1/L2's until I got it. I haven't QC'd yet.
 

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I have only done about 1000 miles in it, the previous mileage was use as a demonstrator.
I just got down to VLBW the charge before last, for the first time, usually I charge up when it gets to about 25-30%
Maybe it didn't like the QC's, It had hardly any L1/L2's until I got it. I haven't QC'd yet.
It won't be the QCs unless multiple ones were done back to back which causes the battery temps to reach 50 degrees C+ ours has done over 150 and has twice been over 46C and once over 50!
I know of a Leaf in the UK which has done 700 QCs in a year, 53000 miles later it has 62Ah capacity.
It is being left at 100% that is the problem.
I would try a full turtle (near home) and 100% slow charge and then see what the capacity says.
 

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Ill give it a try, is it best to charge from full turtle on the 10A EVSE or the 32A wall charger, or does it not matter?
 

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Ill give it a try, is it best to charge from full turtle on the 10A EVSE or the 32A wall charger, or does it not matter?
It shouldn't matter but a slower charge rate meets less resistance so may go on for longer as the peak charge voltage should increase slightly slower and I think that is what decides the cut off. In this case I would use the 10A but check another day to see which results in max GIDS.

Recording number of GIDS at max charge is better than S.O.C. which takes several hours for the charge voltage to settle.
We get 251 max Gids as well after a 100% over night charge on end timer from our wall charger if that helps.

If you are anywhere near Banbury would you be interested in range testing both cars with he same GID value first?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Another interesting thing I've noted between the 'best' car and the 'worst' one, is that when they're both at '100%' charge nearly all the shunts are active (red bars) on the latter, while almost none are active on the former - even though there are clear voltage differences across the both vehicle's cell pairs.

Any thoughts on why that would be?
 

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Car 1 does seem a tad low. I have a gen.1 and am down to around 242 gids at full - a little lower than I'd anticpated. Car is 2.5 years old... though may have also sat around before purchase.

In the first 15 months of ownership I was very careful with my charging routine. I had fewer rapid chargers, charged to 80% except when needed, yet I lost most of this (to 248/250 gids or so) during this period. My circumstances changed (only car) and I now do more rapids, and am always keeping it topped up to 100% ... go figure..... In my case the car is on a 36 month lease in any case but I know I'll be keeping a closer eye on the next one though it's still not entirely clear what one can really do since individual variation makes it tricky to compare behavioural changes
 
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