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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi waiting for our first ev and trying to get a home charger installed,never realised it would be so difficult and complicated.I have tried 2 local installer and it is all dome by sending them about 10 different photos, only to be told cannot see your fuse rating or it is a looped supply and i need to contact my DNO.So contact my DNO who say they need a lnstaller report of exactly what needs doing,also an electrician to confirm my consumer unit is ok and the electric meter company to confirm meter is ok even though it was only installed last year and the consumer unit the year before all individual rcds.As for getting an installer to actually come out seems impossible,seems to be so many hoops to jump through and my brain is frazzled.Has anybody else had these problems and how did you sort it thanks.
 

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Hi waiting for our first ev and trying to get a home charger installed,never realised it would be so difficult and complicated.I have tried 2 local installer and it is all dome by sending them about 10 different photos, only to be told cannot see your fuse rating or it is a looped supply and i need to contact my DNO.So contact my DNO who say they need a lnstaller report of exactly what needs doing,also an electrician to confirm my consumer unit is ok and the electric meter company to confirm meter is ok even though it was only installed last year and the consumer unit the year before all individual rcds.As for getting an installer to actually come out seems impossible,seems to be so many hoops to jump through and my brain is frazzled.Has anybody else had these problems and how did you sort it thanks.
Can you post your photos on here? It will help people to offer advice.
 

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40kW Leaf Tekna & 22kW Zoë Q210 dynamique intens
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Bad news is you have a looped supply.

The good news is that powers that be have been told they have to Unloop it for you FOC to facilitate an electric vehicle charge point being installed.

If you need this installed any time soon without going through a process that feels like pulling teeth I would possibly suggest having a local sparky put a charge point in like @Famandy suggested.

Or get an interlocked commando socket installed and use a commando charger.

I charge using a looped supply, it’s been issue free they don’t always need unlooping it depends on the situation.

Are you in a hurry?
 

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Hi waiting for our first ev and trying to get a home charger installed,never realised it would be so difficult and complicated.I have tried 2 local installer and it is all dome by sending them about 10 different photos, only to be told cannot see your fuse rating or it is a looped supply and i need to contact my DNO.So contact my DNO who say they need a lnstaller report of exactly what needs doing,also an electrician to confirm my consumer unit is ok and the electric meter company to confirm meter is ok even though it was only installed last year and the consumer unit the year before all individual rcds.As for getting an installer to actually come out seems impossible,seems to be so many hoops to jump through and my brain is frazzled.Has anybody else had these problems and how did you sort it thanks.
As your meter was changed out in 2019, call your electricity utility company and ask them for the rating of your cutout fuse. They are meant to keep a record of fuse ratings when changing out meters. Get you MPAN off of them whilst youre on the phone... itll probably be 60A... with regards with the meter being ok, they are asking what size meter tails you have and what the meter is rated to... all new meters should be 100A

The electricians should still quote for the works and suggest a charger with the applicable load management. Dependant on the installer/dno/evcp they should still be able to install this before the unlooping and limit the charger to the applicable rating.

Once you accept the quotation, the official way is for the electrician to issue the correct application form to your dno and state on the application that there is a problem with your supply and that it is looped. They will need to supply the dno with images. From there they contact both you and the electrician to arrange the unlooping. It appears that your neighbours supply comes from your home, hopefully they are accommodating.

When you had your consumer unit changed your installer should of issued you with a cert. If they havent, chase them up. This covers the install compliance, but your EVCP installer can cover this if needbe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As your meter was changed out in 2019, call your electricity utility company and ask them for the rating of your cutout fuse. They are meant to keep a record of fuse ratings when changing out meters. Get you MPAN off of them whilst youre on the phone... itll probably be 60A... with regards with the meter being ok, they are asking what size meter tails you have and what the meter is rated to... all new meters should be 100A

The electricians should still quote for the works and suggest a charger with the applicable load management. Dependant on the installer/dno/evcp they should still be able to install this before the unlooping and limit the charger to the applicable rating.

Once you accept the quotation, the official way is for the electrician to issue the correct application form to your dno and state on the application that there is a problem with your supply and that it is looped. They will need to supply the dno with images. From there they contact both you and the electrician to arrange the unlooping. It appears that your neighbours supply comes from your home, hopefully they are accommodating.

When you had your consumer unit changed your installer should of issued you with a cert. If they havent, chase them up. This covers the install compliance, but your EVCP installer can cover this if needbe.
This is my sticking point both installers will not quote me until i have had the unlooping done or fuse upgraded and the dno want the application form and im stuck in the middle.
 

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This is my sticking point both installers will not quote me until i have had the unlooping done or fuse upgraded and the dno want the application form and im stuck in the middle.
Hmm well, I 32A commando charged on a 60A fuse for a few months, nothing caught fire…. things on the incomer got a bit warm and sticky one night so I called Western Power distribution.

They looked at my install, I gave them tea and hobnobs and they replaced my incomer with a new one and fitted a 100A fuse FOC.

They also said I should consider getting my spiny disk meter replaced because it’s only supposed to deliver 60A nowadays that was nearly a year ago and things have been fine ever since.

I wouldn’t necessarily recommend doing things the way I did but if you get your incoming fuse upgraded the DNO will take one look at your incomer and say “that’s too old well put you a new one in while we’re here” because yours is exactly the same as my old one, and that’s what they told me.

There isn’t really any reason at that point why you couldn’t charge a car.

Especially if you plan to charge in the middle of the night on cheap rate electric when that’s going to be the only thing drawing power.
 

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FWIW, we run two 32 A charge points on a 100 A fused supply. All perfectly legal and compliant with the regs. I have fitted a priority board to ensure that we don't exceed the supply rating, but we've never come close, even with both cars charging.

Not sure why some choose to fit a Commando, TBH, given that exactly the same regs and laws apply for that as apply for a charge point, and the overall cost ends up being much the same, and any small cost difference is more than lost because the Commando installation won't get the grant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
As your meter was changed out in 2019, call your electricity utility company and ask them for the rating of your cutout fuse. They are meant to keep a record of fuse ratings when changing out meters. Get you MPAN off of them whilst youre on the phone... itll probably be 60A... with regards with the meter being ok, they are asking what size meter tails you have and what the meter is rated to... all new meters should be 100A

The electricians should still quote for the works and suggest a charger with the applicable load management. Dependant on the installer/dno/evcp they should still be able to install this before the unlooping and limit the charger to the applicable rating.

Once you accept the quotation, the official way is for the electrician to issue the correct application form to your dno and state on the application that there is a problem with your supply and that it is looped. They will need to supply the dno with images. From there they contact both you and the electrician to arrange the unlooping. It appears that your neighbours supply comes from your home, hopefully they are accommodating.

When you had your consumer unit changed your installer should of issued you with a cert. If they havent, chase them up. This covers the install compliance, but your EVCP installer can cover this if needbe.
My fuse is a 60a and my meter is a smets 2 landis+ gyr which is 100a with 25mm tails
 

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This is my sticking point both installers will not quote me until i have had the unlooping done or fuse upgraded and the dno want the application form and im stuck in the middle.
Sounds like you might want to try and find a more accommodating installer.

As @PeteS1 indicates above there are some good / helpful companies out there, but they can be tricky to track down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sounds like you might want to try and find a more accommodating installer.

As @PeteS1 indicates above there are some good / helpful companies out there, but they can be tricky to track down.
Easier said than done I have now tried local electricians, they are willing to come and look but one only does zappi the other is not approved to install the one I asked about. It is crazy surely it's a charger why the approval to install it.
 

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The bottom line is that installing a charge point is a very simple task, and one that is no more difficult that running a sub-main to an outbuilding, or putting in a connection to a hot tub. Any competent person should easily be able to install one safely, as it's really easy, technically. However, as we've seen with other grant-funded schemes, restrictions have been put in place, not because they enhance safety, but because they allow more people to have a slice of the grant pie that's being handed out.

Any electrician could easily install any make of charge point, but we have a load of middle men that have stepped in, plus another cartel that's been set up because of the grant, to add restrictions. If this was being done with, say, immersion heaters, so that every different make of immersion heater needed the electrician to be approved by its manufacturer, then their price would more than double, yet this is exactly the game being played with charge points. What's worse, is that being an "approved installer" means sod all in terms of workmanship. I've seen downright bloody dangerous work undertaken by "approved installers", so the reality is that not a lot seems to be being done to ensure that high standards are being applied and there are still a few rough and ready merchants around cashing in.
 

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Easier said than done I have now tried local electricians, they are willing to come and look but one only does zappi the other is not approved to install the one I asked about. It is crazy surely it's a charger why the approval to install it.
What part of the country are you in, and what brand of charger do you want fitted? It may be that other members can suggest installers that cover your area.

Is there a strong reason why you want this particular charger?

From an installers perspective your setup means they will have to do extra paperwork / engage with the DNO costing them time and money. They are particularly unenthusiastic about doing this before they have your money, as they could do a bunch of paper work for you to then go to another installer.

Some DNOs seem to be quite helpful and supportive of charger installs, others seem to want to do the minimum they can get away with and make the process bureaucratic. Sounds like your DNO may be the latter - the installers will have experience of this.

The Zappi is more expensive than some options, but its load limiting capability and built in earth fault protection has the potential to make it an easy / low risk fit. I think there are other chargers that have the same / similar benefits, which might be an option if you really don't want a Zappi.
 

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Couldn't agree more @Jeremy Harris - all the red tape seems to be associated with the grant side of things and getting a so called "smart charger" via an approved installer. I was more than happy not to have to have the red tape and as indicated above, actually prefer the simplicity of the QUBEV "dumb charger" as I don't have solar panels or anything complicated to control. My installer, whilst a competent/fully qualified electrician, was not interested in becoming an approved installer - he said he would have to increase his prices to cover all the extra work involved! The BMW App seems to do everything I need in relation to the charging process, so not sure what the approved list of smart chargers actually adds, other than cost and stress! Mine all in was less than £350 supplied and fitted!
 

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@Famandy , I did a breakdown of the basic costs of installing a Qubev a while ago, and I'm amazed that you managed to get a compliant install done for only £350, as that's far less than the price of the materials. Looking at the Qubev prices it seems their unit that includes the mandatory DC tolerant earth leakage protection costs £299.99 (inc VAT) and if you have a TN-C-S/PME supply then you also need to add another ~£100 to that price for open PEN fault detection (either wiring as TT with an earth electrode or fitting an open PEN fault protection device). Then there's cable at around £3 per metre, plus the mandatory Type A RCD and an MCB on the supply, plus sundries. Looks like the total cost of materials for a compliant installation using a Qubev charge point is going to come to at least £450 to £500, with labour on top of that. I suggest that you would be very well advised to check and be absolutely certain that your installation has been correctly installed with the mandatory safety devices, as they are mandated in the regs for very good safety reasons, and, as well as these requirements being clearly set out in Section 722 of BS7671:2018, Qubev also make these mandatory requirements clear in their MIs.
 

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@Jeremy Harris - crikey you've got me worried now - I've rechecked the figures and sorry I've not remembered things quite right oops! It was nearer £450 in total. I will now double check with the electrical firm concerned that the installation complies with Section 722 of BS7671:2018 - many thanks for your incredible insight into all of this.
 

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Sorry to cause any worry, if it wasn't for the fact that I'd put a spreadsheet together a while ago detailing the cost breakdown for a Qubev install I'd not have had the numbers to hand! There is a slight issue with not all electricians appreciating that a charge point installation needs to be treated slightly differently to something like an outside socket, in terms of protection devices, though. Much the same rules apply to a charge point as applies to one or two other outdoor bits of equipment that need additional protection, and until the 18th Edition came out in 2018 there was an assumption that electricians would use their own judgement and follow the manufacturer's instructions (MIs). The IET (who write the wiring regs) have had a guidance note detailing the safety protection measures needed for charge points since around 2013, I believe, but it's likely that only someone that's involved in EV charge points may have come across this. Although all electricians must be familiar with, and have an up to date copy of, the wiring regs, it is a pretty chunky book, and keeping up to date with changes, both from one edition to the next and for amendments that come out every year or so, takes time.
 
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