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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Checks that it's not April 1st - o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O

When will manufacturers realise that going electric alone is not sufficient - we need to make vehicles more efficient and use them less as well. The Audi E-Tron and Porsche Taycan are other examples of missing the point.
 

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Checks that it's not April 1st - o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O

When will manufacturers realise that going electric alone is not sufficient - we need to make vehicles more efficient and use them less as well. The Audi E-Tron and Porsche Taycan are other examples of missing the point.
Or, depending on your point of view, getting it...I do have an eTron and it is a ridiculous vehicle - overweight, oversized and stupidly expensive. As covered in another thread...it just happens to make sense financially for me due to some very odd leasing rules, and I've long harboured a desire to drive an EV so I went for it.

However..."the market" in general seems to want large / heavy SUVs. Better for them to be electric than not...? Lower use / less material is, of course, far better - but it all depends on the base against which one judges. Maybe a case of not letting perfect get in the way of good (or at least, slightly less bad).

Disclaimer - the Hummer is definitely a step too far 😉
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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It's a brand name, I don't think it is 'that' Hummer.
 

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Oh well...I'll modify it to "a pickup of any description is a step too far"!
I advocate choice.

Some people need bigger vehicles, some 'real' off roaders. Why should the EV revolution leave them scrambling for excuses why they continue with their 18mpg 4x4 shitbox, with genuinely no alternative? Are we really destined all to drive the same small cars? How depressing. Does anyone really need a car bigger than an e-Up?
 

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I advocate choice.

Some people need bigger vehicles, some 'real' off roaders. Why should the EV revolution leave them scrambling for excuses why they continue with their 18mpg 4x4 shitbox, with genuinely no alternative? Are we really destined all to drive the same small cars? How depressing. Does anyone really need a car bigger than an e-Up?
Most people don't "need" a car bigger than an e-UP. However, they want something bigger. Consumers don't however often think of anyone but themselves.

Think of it the other way. If you're going to get hit by a car, would you prefer it to be an e-Up or a 2 tonne Range Rover? Or if you live near a main road and suffer from asthma, would you prefer the emissions to come from a fleet of e-Ups or Range Rovers?
 

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Road use tax based on weight as well as distance driven would soon sort out those who are willing to pay extra for the additional wear and environmental damage caused by larger vehicles. Obviously it should also distinguish between EVs and non EVs as the current system does.
 

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.... Obviously it should also distinguish between EVs and non EVs as the current system does.
Why is that then? Are these 'objective measures' of road damage you'e just suggested not applicable to EVs because they float along on saintliness without actually touching the road?

Your suggestions are not workable because they cannot be implemented.

The closest you get to is just put even more tax on fossil fuels, this covers everything. A secondary tax on tyres might also help, as wear and tear to roads is going to be reciprocated by the tyres, ergo wear out tyres wear out the road.
 

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Why is that then? Are these 'objective measures' of road damage you'e just suggested not applicable to EVs because they float along on saintliness without actually touching the road?

Your suggestions are not workable because they cannot be implemented.

The closest you get to is just put even more tax on fossil fuels, this covers everything. A secondary tax on tyres might also help, as wear and tear to roads is going to be reciprocated by the tyres, ergo wear out tyres wear out the road.
It would be fairly easy to have a road use tax based on weight. Either ANPR or GPS tracking where cars go and then cross referring to the DVLA database. Everyone gets a monthly bill for road use, adjusted up or down based on the weight of vehicle. If the Government wanted to encourage more EV use, then a further discount could be applied.

With increasing numbers of cars being hybrid or EV, more tax on fossil fuel just won't bring in the extra income. And of course bearing in mind the Government have consistently cancelled the fuel duty escalator for the last decade to help "the hard pressed motorist", there's no way politically the Tories could ever increase any form of duty or tax on fossil fuel.

At some point in the future, vehicle excise duty will have to be replaced with something like road use pricing to replace the dropping Government income from duty & VAT on fossil fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It would be fairly easy to have a road use tax based on weight. Either ANPR or GPS tracking where cars go and then cross referring to the DVLA database. Everyone gets a monthly bill for road use, adjusted up or down based on the weight of vehicle. If the Government wanted to encourage more EV use, then a further discount could be applied.
I didn't say that wasn't possible, but weight is no indicator of wear and tear on the road. Cunning political tricky-words to try to link the two together?

I can have a 20 tonner that sits in the yard virtually all the year, how much damage is that doing to the road?

Of course we 'could' I am asking 'why'.
 

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I didn't say that wasn't possible, but weight is no indicator of wear and tear on the road. Cunning political tricky-words to try to link the two together?

I can have a 20 tonner that sits in the yard virtually all the year, how much damage is that doing to the road?

Of course we 'could' I am asking 'why'.
Nope what I was saying is that the per mile road tax charge should vary by weight categories for both Ice and EVs. There is evidence to say that heavier vehicles result in more tyre particulates being released into the air. Road wear and tear would also be higher for heavier vehicles. My road was left in a bad state when lorries were going up and down it on a daily basis when a new development was being built and they had to resurface the entire road as a result.
 

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Nope what I was saying is that the per mile road tax charge should vary by weight categories for both Ice and EVs. There is evidence to say that heavier vehicles result in more tyre particulates being released into the air. Road wear and tear would also be higher for heavier vehicles. My road was left in a bad state when lorries were going up and down it on a daily basis when a new development was being built and they had to resurface the entire road as a result.
Oh, I see. I read that as two different charges. Yes, sure, variation of per mile charge according to mass.

Interestingly that could also be refined at the sub 3.5T level. If there was motivation to pick cars say 1 to 1.2T, 1.2 to 1.5T, etc, it would tend to promote some effort in finding lightweight smaller cars, perhaps?
 

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I'm not sure why people are perplexed by an electric Hummer. People have bought all sorts of stupid vehicles over the years (depending on your point of view). I'm not sure why that wouldn't continue with electric.
 
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