Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

61 - 80 of 100 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
No you don't. Just slide the key into the slot and the windows can operate. This was rolled out in a firmware fix in 2015.
For some, in this case me, that means even more time lost, because the key-card is somewhere in the bag which is on the back seat... as I mentioned: first world problems.
 

·
Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
Joined
·
4,277 Posts
Got this one through the Dutch forum. Eye opener: the Renault representative stated that the battery for the new (good catch by Phil below) ZE40 is EXACTLY the same as the ZE50, iow, the ZE40 is a "throttled" ZE50.

Edit: next sentence not valid anymore since we're talking NEW ZE40: That does not jive with the earlier suggested LG-Chem cell types, though if I am not mistaken those were never confirmed.

Statement made @ 17:30. In German.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,757 Posts
For those of us hard of understanding.... the video is saying the battery in the ZE50 is just a ZE40 battery but just more of it is usable than in the ZE40?
 

·
Speak, Eevee!
Joined
·
1,121 Posts
So a ZE40 but without the "reserved" capacity for handling the rapid early degradation? That would explain why the battery lease is going away ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
436 Posts
I haven't watched the video but I read that as the new ZE40 was just a ZE50 with a soft lock on how much battery is usable. This would make sense if it's easier for them to manage just a single battery type but still offer different tiers of vehicle.

If so the battery in a new ZE40 should last aaaages...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
436 Posts
Simple if you can defeat the encryption and various other levels of protection almost certainly built in to the BMS and other systems. Tesla have done similar for a number of their vehicles without any issues that I've heard of; they used to sell a Model S 40 that was a 60 in terms of hardware (or was it a 60 that was actually a 75? I can't remember...).

I believe Tesla have actually temporarily unlocked the full capacity of some software restricted vehicles for natural disasters in the past.

Edit: Link: https://electrek.co/2018/09/12/tesla-releasing-more-battery-capacity-free-supercharging-hurricane-florence/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Simple if you can defeat the encryption and various other levels of protection almost certainly built in to the BMS and other systems. Tesla have done similar for a number of their vehicles without any issues that I've heard of; they used to sell a Model S 40 that was a 60 in terms of hardware (or was it a 60 that was actually a 75? I can't remember...).

I believe Tesla have actually temporarily unlocked the full capacity of some software restricted vehicles for natural disasters in the past.

Edit: Link: https://electrek.co/2018/09/12/tesla-releasing-more-battery-capacity-free-supercharging-hurricane-florence/
I didn't mean a home user update the BMS to release the extra battery, but surely if this were the case then Renault would offer a BMS update for 40 owners. I can't see how they can sell a 50 which in essence is a 40 with a software update.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
883 Posts
Simple if you can defeat the encryption and various other levels of protection almost certainly built in to the BMS and other systems. Tesla have done similar for a number of their vehicles without any issues that I've heard of; they used to sell a Model S 40 that was a 60 in terms of hardware (or was it a 60 that was actually a 75? I can't remember...).

I believe Tesla have actually temporarily unlocked the full capacity of some software restricted vehicles for natural disasters in the past.

Edit: Link: https://electrek.co/2018/09/12/tesla-releasing-more-battery-capacity-free-supercharging-hurricane-florence/
IIRC, it was that 60's all had 75 battery packs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
436 Posts
I can't see how they can sell a 50 which in essence is a 40 with a software update.
It may be possible to upgrade a new 40 to a 50, because it will have the extra battery capacity present but not enabled. Current 40s do not have this extra battery capacity so there is nothing to enable.

Tesla allowed owners to "buy" the extra capacity at a later date - at more than what it cost if bought with the car to start with - but given the conservative nature of the rest of the car industry I'd be very surprised if Renault did, they want the money up front or for you to buy a whole new car to upgrade.

Note that this whole post is built on the assumption that this is how it will work, which may well be wrong...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
I just watched the video and I'm in shock. What Patrizia, in the bonus interview, is saying is highly likely incorrect and potentially dangerous for Renault. In the interview she's officially representing Renault and saying that the battery has been throttled with so much nonchalance is quite frightening. I think she's ignorant, honestly, a message like this needs to be carefully crafted by PR + Legal. It could form the basis for ZE40 owners to request to be either compensated or have their batteries de-throttled which can put Renault in a super shitty situation, whether what Patrizia is saying is true or not (but especially if not)

ZE20 has 12 modules / 192 cells @ 36Ah/cell (25920Wh)
ZE40 has 12 modules / 192 cells @ 63.3Ah/cell (45570Wh)
ZE50 has 12 modules / 192 cells @ yet unknown Ah/cell - I would speculate 78Ah per cell, that's about 56kWh for the full pack.

But it's always been 192 cells split in 12 modules, never 96 or less nor any different. The number of cells is the same in all models, that's why the form-factor has remained the same. Voltage is the same, but the amount of stored energy is higher in each pouch (possibly a longer and thinner roll of anode+separator+cathode with thinner coating and slightly different chemistry). The cells are thicker (at least ZE20 vs ZE40) and packed tighter, fewer gaps between the cells.

I didn't get to Renault dealership today and unlikely will I manage until Thursday for a photo, but if someone with a ZE40 can take a pic of the battery label under the car (i think it's under the driver's seat) it must have written the exact kWh it can store, I believe it is by law that they have to be rather accurate with it.
 

·
Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
Joined
·
4,277 Posts
I think there is no danger at all (I am going from the much stressed new ZE40 here). You buy by contract a ZE40. You get that. There is absolutely no legal basis whatsoever I can think of that would let you successfully "demand" to get more than what you signed and payed for. Throttling functionality of any kind and software enabling features is a totally normal practice and often saves both production costs because of standardization and creates very easy potential upgrade revenue (see Tesla).

Caveat 1: I am no legal expert at all, let alone for German law
Caveat 2: I am agreeing with others that the upgrade revenue idea for ZOE is probably a pipe dream as Renault would rather have more ZOEs on the road. Things might tilt of the profit for the upgrade is more than for a new car (profit defined as hard+soft), but I don't see it happening.
 

·
Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
Joined
·
4,277 Posts
@Badger in Black ..... We could ask all 5000+ active users 5 quid and buy a new ZE50 to rip apart, but strangely somehow I don't see that happening :cool:. The alternative is access to one for a couple of days at a dealership with a working CLIP tool so we could plug in the sniffer to see what's going on. You're an itsy bitsy far away for me to make that work, and my friendly mechanic has left the dealership.
More news Wednesday morning I hope.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
Erm... I'm not sure what to make of this. The ZE50s in the dealer's lot have sort of the same tag on the battery:

124850


That's 50000 Wh. But on the driver's door of a demo car there's a sticker with 52kWh!?

124851


Confused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
774 Posts
Where does it say that?
Well, everyone who's reviewed it so far, plus Renault's own website. They've always quoted usable figures on their public information, never the gross capacity. So they're claiming 52kWh.
124867
 
61 - 80 of 100 Posts
Top