[Jeffrey Cooper]

just a quick poll, did the whole rapidgate thing get sorted for all years of the 40; or is it possible to buy one that you can't get sorted ?

 

[Rei]

Not really, I mean you can still overheat a Leaf 40. Basically count on doing one rapid charge a day at decent speed, if you need more than that plan for delays.

 

[dk6780]

Also, if you haven't taken the software update then you may still have the original restrictions.
Note that the battery overheating issue is still there and you can damage your battery still. The same applies to the 62kWh.

 

[80698]

All 40kWh models (in the UK at least) can either get the software update, or will simply be new enough to have been sold with said software already installed. I'm not sure I would consider #RapidGate to be fixed however though. Compared to the likes of a 30kWh model you're still going to get significantly slower DC charging, especially after the first charge session in a day, and the temperature will still creep up. To actually fix that you need a lot more than software, at the very least a fan or ideally liquid cooled cells.

 

[Troy]

If it’s the old software you won’t know until you drive 250 miles non stop on third rapid it will only charge at low teens of kWh.
One or two rapids a day and you won’t know about it.

 

[grump young guy]

I did 2 rapid charges back to back from 5 - 80% and saw no reduction in speed until 70% of the second charge (still at 30kw at 69%)
By that point the battery was cooking, the next charge would have been painfully slow no doubt. Probably 2 hours ish....

 

[ScottC]

just a quick poll, did the whole rapidgate thing get sorted for all years of the 40; or is it possible to buy one that you can't get sorted ?

Given the problem is a fundamental lack of cooling for cells, software was never ever going to fix it. Did someone suggest they were going to fix it, I mean, other than by slowing down the charge rate?

 

[Rei]

Given the problem is a fundamental lack of cooling for cells, software was never ever going to fix it. Did someone suggest they were going to fix it, I mean, other than by slowing down the charge rate?

They changed the curve so that the battery can get hotter before it starts to slow down. They only seem to offer it in "cold" countries like the UK so I suppose they calculated that the damage done isn't enough to cause warranty issues here. Occasionally pushing it is probably fine but if you rapid charge very day, or twice a day you might have a problem.

 

[freddym]

Has rapidgate gone QUIET because of lockdown?

 

[Catharsis]

In Finland we haven't heavy lockdowns, so I made a 810 km test run on Tuesday, outside temperature 3-8 degrees centigrade, average driving speed 75 km/h (mainly 80 km/h roads), first two legs 160 km, then the next 100 - 150 km, charging time approx. 40 minutes each.

It won't be this good in the summertime...

Nissan Leaf 40 kWh registered Dec 2018, should have fixed...

 

[dk6780]

Given the problem is a fundamental lack of cooling for cells, software was never ever going to fix it. Did someone suggest they were going to fix it, I mean, other than by slowing down the charge rate?

Exactly. All they have done is accept more battery degradation than the initial safety first approach took. I suspect that if they have drivers who regularly do multiple rapids in the day they may have some battery claims in the future. But, how many EV owners will do that for long enough? Probably few as those people traditionally change their cars regularly.

 

[Catharsis]

Here is the temperature curve too.

 

[dk6780]

Here is the temperature curve too. View attachment 130370

Very interesting, I remember reading "somewhere" that the critical temperature for the Nissan battery technology was 40 degrees which you regularly spiked above.

 

[Catharsis]

Very interesting, I remember reading "somewhere" that the critical temperature for the Nissan battery technology was 40 degrees which you regularly spiked above.

These are maximum temperatures from LeafSpy. Should we use average ones?

 

[Kingpleb1]

They probably wouldnt be much different. the temp drops very quickly once you get moving but a hot pack doesn't cool quickly unless its raining outside in my experience..

There has been talk of convertors sticking ventilation holes in there or fans, i mean under the front seats would be perfect as your could then use the interior AC to push cool air into the pack if you cut small holes in the floor under the seat too as there is a vent that passes there.

Another option i guess could be an oil based liquid thats no conductive or flammable and you could fill the pack with it(would increase weight mind) but would dissipate the heat better and give a much bigger heat soak for the pack.
I can imagine that would add at least another 150kg of weight though for the available space ive seen in a pack thats been split.

better i think is the Muxsan range extender to resolve a lot of the issues and help with range... Couple that with a 62kwh pack and youd have tesla range then albeit slower charging lol

 

[QPRfan]

My car had the software upgrade about a year ago now. My longest ever journey in one day has been just under 250 miles where I needed 2 x Rapids. My other 'long' trips have never exceeded 200 miles in one day, again only needing 2 x Rapids. Although the battery has times close to the red line at the end of the 2nd rapid charge, the actual charges did not seem to be throttled at all.

However, I'm sure that had I needed a 3rd rapid the battery temp would have resulted in a very slow 3rd charge.

So to be honest Rapidgate has not really affected me.

However, theres no way I'll but another Nissan EV (or any EV) if it doesnt have thermal battery management.

 

[GOSPORT DAVE]

The truth is the LEAF's Battery is what it is - Passive Cooled - there is no way of changing that, there is an old saying "you cannot make a silk purse out of sow's ear"

The early LEAF models had severe RAPIDGATING, hence all the bad press at the time, from May 2018 all new production cars received the software update which wasn't perfect but helped. Very few purchasers of the later models complained about RAPIDGATE, this was due to the software improvement and prospective purchasers were more aware and savvy of the RAPIDGATING implications. This meant that if RAPIDGATING was going to be a problem, then they would stay clear and purchase an IONIQ or MGZS etc, instead. If prospective purchasers can tolerate the battery limitations then the LEAF is a decent, reliable, roomy vehicle for the money. (not going mention poor Dealerships and NISSAN attitude to customers e.g. map updates etc)

NISSAN have sold a lot of LEAF's in the last 2 years and RAPIDGATE is hardly mentioned now.

So yes RAPIDGATE still exists and still presents issues which requires work arounds but interestingly the LEAF is not alone, the E GOLF had similar issues, the New Model IONIQ has a more condensed battery and RAPIGATES and the MGZS has to have the battery in a temperature sweet spot to achieve a reasonable charge rate.

 

[Rei]

In Finland we haven't heavy lockdowns, so I made a 810 km test run on Tuesday, outside temperature 3-8 degrees centigrade, average driving speed 75 km/h (mainly 80 km/h roads), first two legs 160 km, then the next 100 - 150 km, charging time approx. 40 minutes each.

Wow, thanks. Did you notice any limited power when driving the car? Like when you put your foot down it doesn't accelerate as hard to stop the battery overheating?

 

[TomH]

I believe that the Nissan electric van has a cooled battery. Could you substitute a van battery pack and cooling system into a Leaf?

Probably very expensive.

 

[Rei]

NISSAN have sold a lot of LEAF's in the last 2 years and RAPIDGATE is hardly mentioned now.

I think they realized that the reality is few people do more than one rapid charge a day, ever. For most people it's just not an issue they will encounter so not worth putting any effort in to fixing it.

They are probably used to bad press about EVs, hit jobs in newspapers, and noticed that it doesn't really affect sales much.