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Zoe is fairly accurate as well. There's nothing worse than a range meter that is way off. A pessimistic one is far safer than an idiotically optimistic one.
 

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I drive a Kia Soul EV and everyone said how rubbish the range will be on fast roads and to be honest it's been great, no worse than my Zoe was in the real world and better than the Leaf (drive-train seems inefficient) so I'm keeping my mind open until I've driven one.
As a fellow Soul owner (and a Leaf 24) I can confirm the ZS (pre-production) drove a lot closer to the Soul, it doesn't have the schizophrenic GOM over-corrections of the Leaf, in the hour I test drove the ZS with @Miles Roberts it stayed pretty constant based on the distance I covered rather than making wild variances based on speed / elevation. The big difference to the Soul was the acceleration and turn in to corners was sharper and tighter, the former you'd expect from 141 hp v 109 in the Soul, but the cornering was a surprise as I expected it to wallow a bit more in the corners. I had an e-Golf on a 48 hour test drive a couple of weeks back (sorry @matt303 I have covered some of this on the FB group, but worth putting on a public forum) and if you've ever driven one of those I would say the ZS was closest in performance to that compared to all the other EVs I've driven, only the Leaf 40 and i3 have had better pickup, the ZS didn't feel as lardy as the Leaf (if you've been in a Leaf 24 then driven a Soul back to back, the ZS and Leaf 40 feel similar in that the ZS feels surprisingly light compared to the doughy Leaf).

I'm looking forward to getting into a production test drive next month to make sure my recollections above still hold true, but I feel you won't be disappointed with the drive of the car. One thing I hope they have tightened up is the auto hold feature, which seemed a little slow to disengage when pulling away from a stop (I'd never driven a car with that before, but the e-Golf has it, and it was a near seamless experience in that car).
 

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Does it have hillholder effect where a firm push on the brake will hold the car until you accelerate?

Very much liked that on the B250e.

225xe doesn't have it which is somewhat tiresome.

Good to hear about decent handling too - some cars without IRS suffer as a result - sounds like MG have done well with the ZS - the MG3 and MG6 are very well regarded for their handling too.
 

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Does it have hillholder effect where a firm push on the brake will hold the car until you accelerate?

Very much liked that on the B250e.

225xe doesn't have it which is somewhat tiresome.

Good to hear about decent handling too - some cars without IRS suffer as a result - sounds like MG have done well with the ZS - the MG3 and MG6 are very well regarded for their handling too.
Yup Auto hill hold comes on when you apply a final push to the brakes when you come to a stop and is released (in the pre-prod, rather liesurely) when pressing the go pedal.
 

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I had an e-Golf on a 48 hour test drive a couple of weeks back (sorry @matt303 I have covered some of this on the FB group, but worth putting on a public forum) and if you've ever driven one of those I would say the ZS was closest in performance to that compared to all the other EVs I've driven, only the Leaf 40 and i3 have had better pickup, the ZS didn't feel as lardy as the Leaf (if you've been in a Leaf 24 then driven a Soul back to back, the ZS and Leaf 40 feel similar in that the ZS feels surprisingly light compared to the doughy Leaf).
You make reference to the e.Golf in your comments, I currently own the VW GTE which is a plug in hybrid.
I have also driven the e.Golf on one of the 48 hour test drives and found it a very nice car to drive.
It was very much like my present hybrid when in electric mode, but all of the time with a much greater range of course !.
These are the two cars that I will be doing a straight comparison against in regards to the MG EV road test.
You say the performance of the MG feels a lot like the e.Golf, is so I will be happy with that.
But can you remember if the car was as silent as the e.Golf ?.
I have watched videos where people have said that the electric motor on the MG EV makes a "Whining" sound that can be clearly heard in the cabin when accelerating !.
What are your views on this subject ??.
 

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When I drove a per-production ZS EV I thought there was a little bit of motor/inverter whine when accelerating, possibly slightly more than than my Soul EV makes, I commented that I rather liked the sound at the time.
 

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You make reference to the e.Golf in your comments, I currently own the VW GTE which is a plug in hybrid.
I have also driven the e.Golf on one of the 48 hour test drives and found it a very nice car to drive.
It was very much like my present hybrid when in electric mode, but all of the time with a much greater range of course !.
These are the two cars that I will be doing a straight comparison against in regards to the MG EV road test.
You say the performance of the MG feels a lot like the e.Golf, is so I will be happy with that.
But can you remember if the car was as silent as the e.Golf ?.
I have watched videos where people have said that the electric motor on the MG EV makes a "Whining" sound that can be clearly heard in the cabin when accelerating !.
What are your views on this subject ??.
I think I’d need to go back in both to make a fair assessment of that, from memory the MG was quieter than my Leaf 24 that I drove over to the test drive and the Leaf 40 I back to back test drove against the MG. The e-Golf was similar in its noise output to my Soul.

I should clarify auto-stop is different to hill hold, it allows you to touch the brake and the car is stopped (so you can rest that weary right foot, why should the left have all the down time?) and then hitting the accelerator gets you moving again, no need to hold the brake while in this mode (it’s like a lazy version of putting it in P and applying the handbrake), both the e-Golf and MG have that but the Soul and Leaf (well the old mk1) don’t.
 

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Discussion Starter #90
The MG ZS EV brochure states "Managed by MG's Intelligent Battery Temperature Control system, the battery pack is insulated from external temperature variations, delivering the optimum power and range whatever the weather." Could this mean that the MG would not see the usual reduction in efficiency at winter temperatures? If this is correct will it at least partly compensate for the loss of a heat pump?
 

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no they don't function at all, unless assisted by a PTC heater first. If you then use AC (full climate) to keep the interior dry as well as warm your cooling it, so the PTC heater needs to come on and off (flip / flop like the AC) to generate the heat the heatpump then works with.
Er...where are you getting this from?

A heatpump can work without a PTC heater. All a heatpump is an air-conditioning system that can work in reverse, so instead of cooling the cabin it warms it. Heatpumps become progressively less efficient below 0'C, eventually reaching parity to a resistive heater around -10'C (although it may differ for an R1234yf system used in a car), so many manufacturers include a PTC heater to supplement the power output (and reduce the size demands of the A/C system.)

But it is perfectly possible to have a heatpump assisted car where the PTC heater does not activate. It will take longer to warm up as the thermal energy is transferred by a refrigeration cycle, which has much latency. So I would not be surprised if manufacturers also turn on the PTC heater when instant heat is demanded, until the heat-pump is outputting sufficient heat. There will likely be a transition between the two, rather than an abrupt shut-off. Once at temperature, the heatpump will likely do all the work in moderate weather conditions. This is also where preheating is beneficial - as the mains electricity will be used to provide much of the initial PTC heat.

Also, there are two types of PTC heater. My Golf GTE has a coolant PTC heater, which warms the low-temperature coolant circuit. This coolant circuit is shared with the drive motor (providing additional heat) and a heat exchanger allows it to be warmed from the engine on longer trips. This coolant is then passed through the radiators in the HVAC system to warm the occupants. Some cars, I believe the early Nissan Leaf is an example, have an air PTC heater. This is similar to a fan heater, in that it produces near-instant heat. However the disadvantage is that it cannot take advantage of any excess motor heat produced, so it's generally a little less efficient, and if dust gets on the heater, it can smell a bit like burning/smoke (even though this is perfectly harmless.)
 

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Er...where are you getting this from?

A heatpump can work without a PTC heater. All a heatpump is an air-conditioning system that can work in reverse, so instead of cooling the cabin it warms it. Heatpumps become progressively less efficient below 0'C, eventually reaching parity to a resistive heater around -10'C (although it may differ for an R1234yf system used in a car), so many manufacturers include a PTC heater to supplement the power output (and reduce the size demands of the A/C system.)

But it is perfectly possible to have a heatpump assisted car where the PTC heater does not activate. It will take longer to warm up as the thermal energy is transferred by a refrigeration cycle, which has much latency. So I would not be surprised if manufacturers also turn on the PTC heater when instant heat is demanded, until the heat-pump is outputting sufficient heat. There will likely be a transition between the two, rather than an abrupt shut-off. Once at temperature, the heatpump will likely do all the work in moderate weather conditions. This is also where preheating is beneficial - as the mains electricity will be used to provide much of the initial PTC heat.

Also, there are two types of PTC heater. My Golf GTE has a coolant PTC heater, which warms the low-temperature coolant circuit. This coolant circuit is shared with the drive motor (providing additional heat) and a heat exchanger allows it to be warmed from the engine on longer trips. This coolant is then passed through the radiators in the HVAC system to warm the occupants. Some cars, I believe the early Nissan Leaf is an example, have an air PTC heater. This is similar to a fan heater, in that it produces near-instant heat. However the disadvantage is that it cannot take advantage of any excess motor heat produced, so it's generally a little less efficient, and if dust gets on the heater, it can smell a bit like burning/smoke (even though this is perfectly harmless.)
A brilliant write up @tom66 !.
 

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Er...where are you getting this from?

A heatpump can work without a PTC heater. All a heatpump is an air-conditioning system that can work in reverse, so instead of cooling the cabin it warms it. Heatpumps become progressively less efficient below 0'C, eventually reaching parity to a resistive heater around -10'C (although it may differ for an R1234yf system used in a car), so many manufacturers include a PTC heater to supplement the power output (and reduce the size demands of the A/C system.)

But it is perfectly possible to have a heatpump assisted car where the PTC heater does not activate. It will take longer to warm up as the thermal energy is transferred by a refrigeration cycle, which has much latency. So I would not be surprised if manufacturers also turn on the PTC heater when instant heat is demanded, until the heat-pump is outputting sufficient heat. There will likely be a transition between the two, rather than an abrupt shut-off. Once at temperature, the heatpump will likely do all the work in moderate weather conditions. This is also where preheating is beneficial - as the mains electricity will be used to provide much of the initial PTC heat.

Also, there are two types of PTC heater. My Golf GTE has a coolant PTC heater, which warms the low-temperature coolant circuit. This coolant circuit is shared with the drive motor (providing additional heat) and a heat exchanger allows it to be warmed from the engine on longer trips. This coolant is then passed through the radiators in the HVAC system to warm the occupants. Some cars, I believe the early Nissan Leaf is an example, have an air PTC heater. This is similar to a fan heater, in that it produces near-instant heat. However the disadvantage is that it cannot take advantage of any excess motor heat produced, so it's generally a little less efficient, and if dust gets on the heater, it can smell a bit like burning/smoke (even though this is perfectly harmless.)

I think perhaps you missed my point, although you highlighted most of what i was suggesting.

Below freezing the PTC is employed to generate heat for the heatpump to work with. It uses this heat to boost heat pump efficiency, unfortunately with a heat pump you can't both heat and AC at the same time. The pump has to switch. So the heatpump flips to heat, then flops to AC to remove moisture, then flips to heat (and a PTC boost) etc etc. Zoe owners will confirm this, you can turn off AC so it only heats but then you get steamy windows if you've dragged any moisture into the car.

A PTC on its own without heatpump can then have the benefit of both heating and the AC drying the air. Ok not as efficient, but a whole heap more effective when its freezing outside and you want it toasty and clear inside.
 

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@Sandy That's a fair point, and one I didn't consider.

I know on the GTE, that the air con is overridden on the demist mode. So, it will always use the air con to demist even if it is 5C outside. Normally, if it is cold outside, having the AC on will not provide any additional cooling, the HVAC system is smart enough to draw in outside air for that purpose.

I would hope that vehicle manufacturers would make the software in their vehicles smart enough to prioritise demist over heating. If they have a PTC heater then that would be engaged while the air con acts to demist, rather than both acting to provide heat.

BTW, the PTC heater isn't making the heat pump more efficient, necessarily, it's just necessary because the heat pump doesn't produce much heat at the start of its cycle, and because it cannot produce as much heat when the outside temperature is low. In this sense, the PTC heater is supplementing the heatpump output as it is inadequate to warm the cabin without it, rather than increasing it by warming it. I'm not sure if its performance would improve as it warms up though - not an expert on refrigeration systems.

On the e-Golf, I found the front electric window heater to be rather good, and I expect this to be the most efficient way to demist the window. Hopefully this becomes more common on EVs.
 

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@Sandy That's a fair point, and one I didn't consider.

I know on the GTE, that the air con is overridden on the demist mode. So, it will always use the air con to demist even if it is 5C outside. Normally, if it is cold outside, having the AC on will not provide any additional cooling, the HVAC system is smart enough to draw in outside air for that purpose.

I would hope that vehicle manufacturers would make the software in their vehicles smart enough to prioritise demist over heating. If they have a PTC heater then that would be engaged while the air con acts to demist, rather than both acting to provide heat.

BTW, the PTC heater isn't making the heat pump more efficient, necessarily, it's just necessary because the heat pump doesn't produce much heat at the start of its cycle, and because it cannot produce as much heat when the outside temperature is low. In this sense, the PTC heater is supplementing the heatpump output as it is inadequate to warm the cabin without it, rather than increasing it by warming it. I'm not sure if its performance would improve as it warms up though - not an expert on refrigeration systems.

On the e-Golf, I found the front electric window heater to be rather good, and I expect this to be the most efficient way to demist the window. Hopefully this becomes more common on EVs.
Heated front windscreen is by far the best way to demist a front screen - my previous fords have all had it, and it's a wonderful system. I didn't know the e-Golf had one.
 

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Heated front windscreen is by far the best way to demist a front screen - my previous fords have all had it, and it's a wonderful system. I didn't know the e-Golf had one.
Yes agree my Toyota EV had a 120v Metal Film heated front screen, it was bronze tinted and you couldn't see any wires, super fast demist and de ice, it was hot to the touch on the outside! Brilliant and unique?
 

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Yes agree my Toyota EV had a 120v Metal Film heated front screen, it was bronze tinted and you couldn't see any wires, super fast demist and de ice, it was hot to the touch on the outside! Brilliant and unique?
The metal film heaters are the best, but they're expensive. Last I heard they were a goldish tint because the metal film was a layer of gold. That's the reason most have moved to thin wires, because the gold layer is too expensive now. Unfortunately the wire heaters produce much more glare and starbursting at night time.
 
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