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...In your position, I would be buying a new Astra Hybrid, you'll be able to use it mostly on electric but it would not matter as much if you didn't get to charge as the petrol engine would see you through.
Errrrm, do yo mean the 2022 Astra Hybrid plugin PHEV? With about 43 miles electric range.
Price new circa £30k, and ok has a warranty. I'd cinsider one if I had occasional very long trups eg hols to do, but these days a pure EV should manage as more & more Rapids around.
A BEV should be a lot more reliable long-term, far fewer moving parts.

If you meant plain 'ole hybrid, the saving on these is really in around-town driving, where lots of stop/start means lots of regenning available. But the Li-ion batteryin these is usually tiny, say 1 kWh, good for 3-4 miles electric-only, and no ability to plugin to mains to recharge either.
 

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This particular 'help required' enquiry is a tricky one. The basic question of would an EV work for this commute is an easy one. Of course it would as long as it had a year round range of min 120 miles. And it would certainly save a lot on transport costs using an overnight electric tariff versus petrol. The tricky part is in finding an EV that would fit into a tight budget but has enough range to avoid daily anxiety. Only the OP can make that call.
 

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The other possible car is an ampera. That's almost 50 miles on electric in good weather so with work place charging....you'd need a good HEVRA garage to look after it though as they're getting on a bit now.
 

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The other possible car is an ampera. That's almost 50 miles on electric in good weather so with work place charging....you'd need a good HEVRA garage to look after it though as they're getting on a bit now.
Great car, loved mine. But I wouldn't have one if I had a regular commute that must be done. While these rarely go wrong, they can easily be off the streets for weeks if the dealer has to search for replacement parts from USA/Germany. Can be v expensive = £400 for a rear light cluster? Ioniq PHEV is a slightly less capable car, but v similar in concept etc, and spares should be far more readily available. But it's nothing special, will do about 35-40 miles electric so OP will still have 60 miles petrol to do, unless he can guarantee a fillup (4 hours plugged in appx) each day at work. Ioniq 28 makes far more sense to my mind.
 
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Errrrm, do yo mean the 2022 Astra Hybrid plugin PHEV? With about 43 miles electric range.
Price new circa £30k, and ok has a warranty. I'd cinsider one if I had occasional very long trups eg hols to do, but these days a pure EV should manage as more & more Rapids around.
A BEV should be a lot more reliable long-term, far fewer moving parts.

If you meant plain 'ole hybrid, the saving on these is really in around-town driving, where lots of stop/start means lots of regenning available. But the Li-ion batteryin these is usually tiny, say 1 kWh, good for 3-4 miles electric-only, and no ability to plugin to mains to recharge either.
The female salesman at a large dealership said it was a bit cheaper and went a bit further but I don't trust what sales people say anyway.
Assuming, because the trip details were not divulged, that at least 15 miles of the 50 mile trip was getting onto faster roads and then back off them to arrive at school.some of the remaining journey could make use of petrol and some of the battery only. The driver of a regular journey would get to learn the best use of the available power source.
The biggest issue is the time or times when the children are on board and the fact that buying something which would initially have to be driven some distance just to charge ie an EV that can barely do the 100 miles could end up being a complete waste of time and money as per the experiences of another poster, in a different thread.
Without all the information it is difficult to tell someone exactly what they should or should not do but it's important to make people aware of the facts even if they do spit their dummies out and say someone was rude for stating the obvious facts that had to that point been entirely ignored.

In my view, if I was having to drive a couple of kids that have certain needs on a daily basis both to and from a school 50 miles away I would want to do it in something I had as close to 100% certainty had the range, even if a halfwit closed a road off and set up a 20 mile diversion.
There is never any guarantee that a diversion would go past a usable charging point and that is an important consideration when looking at range, as is the type of roads, speeds, weather etc which are all things the OP admits to not being up to speed with and therefore needs pointing out.

Perhaps if the OP gave sufficient information there could be cases made for specific vehicles with secondhand being considered along with adequate warnings about the pitfalls and what to look out for.

Hopefully some of what has been written will connect when he's chewing his "meet"

Gaz
 
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So what would you prefer - 200 answers telling you all the sugar coated stuff that won't get you anywhere, or one answer that if you can get past the fact that it's not telling you what you want to hear, at least gets to the heart of the problem. I would have thought that for an english teacher, who presumably tells their pupils to read, read and then read some more, there are over 100k posts on this forum from the last year telling him pretty much exactly what us rude people have said. Has he done any research at all ? has he looked at a couple of cars on autotrader, but wants to know what might be wrong with them ?, has he even looked at his own finances to see what he could afford on the second hand market before asking us lot to ezplain everything - exactly what work has he put into this idea on his own, or does he just want the magical answer to appear magically in front of him for no effort on his part whatsoever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #108 ·
I'm trying to figure out what you teach to be honest.
When I gave teaching some thought, the salary was good compared to a number of other choices but maybe its all gone belly up.
In your position, I would be buying a new Astra Hybrid, you'll be able to use it mostly on electric but it would not matter as much if you didn't get to charge as the petrol engine would see you through. They are cheap too, especially if factoring the cost advantages of driving such a car.
You failed to answer a number of questions but regardless of the answers, getting stuck in a flat BEV for hours with a couple of special needs children in the car is not something you should be risking for the sake of saving a few quid.
Some respondents are correct and some had not given it any thought but it's your decision.
Assuming you own the property then getting a proper charge point would be a good future proof idea even if the car could be charged over night with a granny cable in an emergency.

It was touched on but if you were to secure finance for a new car you could be better off with that than paying an inflated price for someone else's castoff.

I trust you'll be able to at least get some figures together to see the correct path for you.

Gaz
Thanks for the advice. I teach English. And while the salary is fair I have a wife and two children.
Some additional support is required for one of the kids, so this can add to the monthly outgoings.
If there are any questions that I have missed that would affect your advice please let me know.
Happy to share as much as I can so that I can make the most informed decision possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #109 ·
sorry for not revealing more about my commute, j honestly didn’t realise the difference roads and speeds can make to the decision making (so glad I came here when trying to figure things out)

I live in Scotland and am commuting from Dundee(ish) so there is a 70mph duel carriage way but no motorway. That accounts for about 30 miles of the commute.

I can however just go the coastal road where there is only about 10 miles of dual carriageway at 70mph. Other than that the max is 60mph.
Not sure if that makes a difference at all
 

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Up your budget.

You're probably looking around the £350 mark doing a quick search on AT for a suitable Leaf or Zoe to do the journey comfortably, as many have said.

Not sure why folk are insistent or trying to get the guy to change jobs, I'm sure he can work that out himself.
 

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I would say a summary here:

* Don't get a old (or new) Leaf/Zoe (or i-MiEV) these are crap cars for the task that you'll be compromising on to do the commute not to mention look like a foot.

• Buying a new/nearly new EV you need to be looking at £30k+

• Buying second hand like an MG5/Ioniq 38 you'll be looking at £20k+

* Leasing that mileage you'll be looking at £350 starting a month with 1x deposit for something in stock

* Finding a job closer to home

* Finding a home closer to work

* Temporary stay closer (Travelodge) during the week days

* Get an efficient second hand diesel (like a Passat (B8 ~2017+) ) that'll soak up the dual carriageway/motorway miles at a real world 60mpg.

500 miles / 60 = 8.33 gallons

8.33 gallons = 38 litres

£2 a litre * 38 = £76 a week in fuel.

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet the EV price could be not much better depending on tariff

500 / 4 miles per kWh = 125 kWh
500 / 3 miles per kWh = 166 kWh

If it costs 30p a kWh

£37.50 - £50

At 35p

£43.75 - £58
 

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FWIW my lifetime avg over 12k miles in Ioniq 38 is 4.7 miles/kWh. That's winter & summer use, driving more gently in winter (seldom over genuine 60 on long trips) and faster in summer (happy to go up to 70 but comfortable at continuous 65). An Ioniq 28 is about 100kg lighter and uses fractionally slimmer tyre, so will achieve the same efficiency. Weather in Scotland may be generally wetter than where I am in south of England, so probably 4.5 m/kWh would be an accurate estimation for this gem of a car.
500 / 4.5 miles per kWh = 112 kWh
If it costs 30p a kwh that's £33 a week in electricity.
For the OP's info, this car ( 28 & 38 versions) are recognised as the most efficient affordable EVs around. Tesla Model 3 LR has similar efficiency, but is far more expensive so n/a here. If the budget won't extend up to a more expensive Ioniq 38/MG range EV which would eat this commute no sweat, then for me this is the only "entry-level" EV which is able to do this daily commute with ease.

I suggest the OP has a play on abetterrouteplanner.com and tries out his route(s), selecting Ioniq 28 & other EVs to get a feel for what's viable, also change the headwind, rain & temperature & speed settings to get a feel for worst-case scenario.
Even if it's a thunder & lightning type of day, deep water on the road, the ability to have something like a quick 10 minute topup (25 miles worth at 33 kW, we'll assume cold battery) should be enough to overcome any range anxiety. Max speed used is the big range-killer, slowing down 10 mph especially in the wet works wonders in reducing losses!
 

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I presume from the description that you are heading towards Perth? As well as the mix of speeds, hills may have an effect, depending on where you're actually heading to. There are a few rapids about, off the Dundee-Perth dual carriageway, so may be able to top up if you run a bit short on a particularly stormy day.

I would note that car prices in general - but particularly EVs - are a lot higher than was the case pre-pandemic.
If you can find an Ioniq EV or PHEV that fits your budget, that would be well worth a look - particularly the EV.

The other "obvious" possibility would be a 40kWh Leaf. At least there are quite a few of those about.
 

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I would say a summary here:

* Don't get a old (or new) Leaf/Zoe (or i-MiEV) these are crap cars for the task that you'll be compromising on to do the commute not to mention look like a foot.

• Buying a new/nearly new EV you need to be looking at £30k+

• Buying second hand like an MG5/Ioniq 38 you'll be looking at £20k+

* Leasing that mileage you'll be looking at £350 starting a month with 1x deposit for something in stock

* Finding a job closer to home

* Finding a home closer to work

* Temporary stay closer (Travelodge) during the week days

* Get an efficient second hand diesel (like a Passat (B8 ~2017+) ) that'll soak up the dual carriageway/motorway miles at a real world 60mpg.

500 miles / 60 = 8.33 gallons

8.33 gallons = 38 litres

£2 a litre * 38 = £76 a week in fuel.

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet the EV price could be not much better depending on tariff

500 / 4 miles per kWh = 125 kWh
500 / 3 miles per kWh = 166 kWh

If it costs 30p a kWh

£37.50 - £50

At 35p

£43.75 - £58
A Zoe or Leaf would do the job but not the older ones in his budget.

Your leccy price calc is based on assuming he sticks with the standard tariff when you can easily move to say Octopus Go and slash that cost.

Also love the Travelodge idea, I'm sure the OP would love to stay away from the family and spend more money staying in a hotel room when he's only 50 miles up the road. 🤣
 

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sorry for not revealing more about my commute, j honestly didn’t realise the difference roads and speeds can make to the decision making (so glad I came here when trying to figure things out)

I live in Scotland and am commuting from Dundee(ish) so there is a 70mph duel carriage way but no motorway. That accounts for about 30 miles of the commute.

I can however just go the coastal road where there is only about 10 miles of dual carriageway at 70mph. Other than that the max is 60mph.
Not sure if that makes a difference at all
It does nake a difference.
Being driven at 50 to 60 most EV ranges will be a fair bit more than if they were coaxed into hitting 70.
Hills. I know a chap who has a fantastic commute where he's on a twisty and hilly part of Scotland he's getting quite a lot of regen so effectively extending his range.

Here's what you should do in my opinion.

1) edit your post where you wrote meat instead of meet, just to save the embarrassing consequences of someone finding that in the future. I'll delete this bit too so no evidence.

1) using Google maps or similar plot out your journey. Adjust things as needed to see the worst possible journey if there was a diversion of some sort. Write down the distance and add half as much again. That would be the range you would really be comfortable with.
Let's say longest diverted journey to work would be 70 miles, 105 miles is therefore a comfortable range to have to get you there safely but you would need to then charge all day to get back up to 100% (using a granny charger)

2) look at EVs that can do the range. Not wltp figures but real world and after a number of years degradation of the batteries and in winter conditions. You need to also consider the speed at which they can be charged.

3) look at your budget. Think of the kids. Consider the level of comfort you need and how safely you want to arrive home after you and the kids have had a long day at the school.
I'm assuming it's 5 days a week with both kids so look at the possibilities of making sure there is no difference in having a safe range on the Friday when traffic might be at its worse.

4) look at some of the suggestions made.
Will an EV that did just over 100 miles new be any good to you as a 3 or 4 year old car, I would think not. Look at both new and secondhand prices and ask as many questions as you need to.

My suggestion of the Astra hybrid which is a new car was based on what I would buy if in your position. Totally EV solutions might be a Corsa, secondhand. Even in winter you'd have a 160 mile range but it might be considered too small.

Sorry if you found any responses rude.
I read everything and found nothing rude or condescending, just different ways of pointing things out.
The worst you could do is buy something that ended up not being really useable which is a hard and expensive lesson learned.

Hopefully you're getting some valuable points of view from every respondent and making good use of the opinions but as someone just mentioned you may have to invest more than you at first thought.
Is the written off Astra going to provide enough money for a decent deposit to make pcp an option?
Could leasing be an option?
How about moving property?

Best of luck with finding the best solution.

Gaz
 

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I think jmacneil meant "hills may have an effect". Bills always do! :). Seriously, ABRP I believe includes elevation info in its planning. Regen means you get back going down the hill most of the extra energy yo used to go up it, but you might need that extra reserve to get to the top! I once descended from Shap into Kendal & put quite a few miles range back into my EV, so compared to a flat route I needed a larger battery to take the hilly route in the first place.

OP says he has a couple of routes available. Generally, shorter = better as tyres have a pretty fixed energy loss/mile travelled and this value increases very slightly with speed. Slower = better, I estimate that wind resistance uses about 1/4 the energy of a trip, and this resistance goes up with the square of your speed, so a trip at 60 rather than at 70 will use about (6*6)/(7*7) = 73% of the wind energy, so if the wind bit contributes 1/4 to total energy used then we expect reducing speed to 60 means the trip uses about 94% of trip at 70.
Reduce speed to 55 rather than 70 = 62% reduction in wind so v approx 90% energy used for trip.

These calcs are v approximate, really just indicative of what EVers soon learn, speed costs you range big-time when you have an un-aerodynamic car like a Leaf/MG. I've lost count of the times I've seen appends from early-Leaf owners in here saying that driving over 60 you hit a brick wall & range plummets. Doesn't happen with the aerodynamic Ioniq until you start exceeding 80.
 

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Discussion Starter · #117 ·
I presume from the description that you are heading towards Perth? As well as the mix of speeds, hills may have an effect, depending on where you're actually heading to. There are a few rapids about, off the Dundee-Perth dual carriageway, so may be able to top up if you run a bit short on a particularly stormy day.

I would note that car prices in general - but particularly EVs - are a lot higher than was the case pre-pandemic.
If you can find an Ioniq EV or PHEV that fits your budget, that would be well worth a look - particularly the EV.

The other "obvious" possibility would be a 40kWh Leaf. At least there are quite a few of those about.
Other direction. Heading towards Montrose
 

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I think jmacneil meant "hills may have an effect". Bills always do! :).
Err, yes. I had edited that well before I saw your comment.
 

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A Zoe or Leaf would do the job but not the older ones in his budget.

Your leccy price calc is based on assuming he sticks with the standard tariff when you can easily move to say Octopus Go and slash that cost.

Also love the Travelodge idea, I'm sure the OP would love to stay away from the family and spend more money staying in a hotel room when he's only 50 miles up the road. 🤣
A new Zoe or Leaf could do the job but between the Leaf looks and Chademo, and the zero ncap from Renault skimping on airbags and safety tech I couldn't suggest them to anyone, especially with the Kona/Niro EV/MGZS/Fiat 500/ID.3 being all better options at the price point.

The Octopus Go only works in specific situations, if I personally had my house using the peak having a wife and two kids it would cost an absolute bomb. So whilst you save on EV you lose out on house running costs.
 

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Other direction. Heading towards Montrose
As others have noted - have a play with "A Better Route Planner" for your particular route, with typical winter weather conditions for any cars you might consider - it's really very good. Ioniq (28 or 38) or Leaf 40kWh would be the "obvious" EV choices, I would have thought.

ABRP
 
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