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Discussion Starter #1
Has any Leaf owner driven from the Hexham to St Boswells? Was it tight for range given the hills or an easily doable route? Mk1 or MK2 Leaf?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Great! If you are happy then that is what is important. :)

But by way of discussion...

I wouldn't attempt that route at this time of year in a Leaf, particular a Mk1. Clearly it can do it but if the ambient temp is very low (as it is likely to be at this time of year) then it could be a very close thing... not one for the faint hearted or one on a time schedule.

I would suggest that the better and more guaranteed route would be around the coast via Alnwick and Haggerston Castle. Longer on the road but do you really want to risk calling out a flatbed recovery on such a public event?
 

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Thanks for your concern.

Google gives an average speed of 41 mph for this leg and as Matt B has told you, his C-Zero did it with 30 miles range spare.

I looked at the A1 route, but Haggerston Castle to Edinburgh Castle is 10 miles longer than this leg and then leaves you empty at the finish line.

There is an open question still on whether the charger at the council office is available out of hours, so we still may switch.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It is longer but my point is that it is more guaranteed and less of a risk. I have had a lot of experience doing long legs in the Leaf and it has always been the legs with hills that have nearly caught me out. The average speed on Google is actually not much help. Sure, it shows that the road is generally a slow one but the hills are the unknown and even at 40mph I would be reluctant to take that route on in winter. I'd have less concern at summer temps but even then I have done 60 mile legs that I have only just made because of hills.

Still, ultimately, it is all about what you are happy with so if you are happy then go for it :) I hope you make it and will have my fingers crossed for you :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just heard from Matt regarding when he did that leg... he did it in summer and he reckons he had 30% remaining at the end of the leg.

That is interesting because it is 58 mile so a 30% remaining would make his range over that leg about 82 miles. That is more like the range you would expect for a C-Zero without any hills isn't it?

However, even if you use Matt's figures, and assuming that the Leaf has a similar range, then given the temps I would expect a range over that leg when adjusted for the cooler temps, would be nearer 65 miles. But that is to totally empty. 58 miles seems very risky to me.
 

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There are two backup options en route; some 13A points at Whitelee Holiday Cottages and a 7kW post at Jedburgh.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sounds all good then. With back up options it is much less of a concern.

Thx Matt.

I think that the point for @dpeilow s trip is that he and Robert Llewellyn are experienced EV drivers so I am not mentioning all this for their benefit... they experienced enough to look after themselves :) But I just wanted to raise the point about this leg because for those new to EVs you can then see the kinds of thought process that goes towards route planning with an EV :)
 

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Futhermore, I revisited some old discussions on TMC from when the Leaf came out in the US. They measured a loss of 6.5 miles range for every 1000' climbed and 4 miles back for every 1000' dropped. So on this route it gives a reduction in range of 3 miles, in line with the other calculation.

Regarding the backup sites Paul - I told you about those in an email earlier today...

Matt did the drive in the middle of the night and said it was 12C. We'll be keeping an eye on the weather and adjusting the plans if needed.


For reference, I analysed the A1 route from Haggerston Castle to Edinburgh Castle. It uses more energy at the same speed (which is low for that road anyway) and leaves you in central Edinburgh with little charge.

HC-EC.PNG
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
LOL! Oh David! You are so wedded to your figures and theories aren't you whilst totally ignoring real world experience!

In my experience that route with those hills would drop the range at least 10 miles and probably nearer 15 miles regardless of what your theories say.

Still, you will find all that out for yourself won't you! Good luck! You're going to need it!
 

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The above software takes that into account. You will notice it says Leaf range is 125 km for the longer, flatter route but 116 km for the direct hilly route.

You are also forgetting I have real world experience of doing London - Land's End, London - Edinburgh and John O'Groats - Lands End, all of which were planned with this same analysis beforehand and which proved to be extremely precise. I also used it to calculate the locations for the Tesla HPC network. When I did London - Edinburgh in 2011 the last section was in sub-zero temperatures, through snow and freezing fog and over similar terrain with similar altitude changes on the M74.

Paul, we appreciate your concern, but please we aware that we have plans B and C if they are needed. I told you about the 32A locations and we also have a cold weather route that has shorter gaps between recharges. If the temperature drops and the car starts to come up short, we will switch to the latter.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Fair enough David. I accept you aren't stupid!!!! You are bound to have plans B/C etc as any good EVer would.

I just get the feeling that you are relying too much on software and numbers instead of taking on board the actual experiences of real world drivers. That is all.

I accept that the theoretical range loss due to hills for that route might be just 4 miles and if you drive that route with the same criteria as the tests, i.e. same temp, same traffic, same driving style, same speed, then it might get close to that 4 miles. In the real world though it is always likely to be way more than that. Traffic and driving style will certainly mean that you will use the brakes more, the very windy road will mean that you have to use regen and perhaps the mechanical brakes more than planned rather than gliding because you have to keep the speed down, a whole host of things will mean that the range reduction for the hills on that route is more likely my 10-15 miles than your 4 miles.

I have found that after speed hills are the thing most likely to catch an EV driver out and leave him stranded so all I am saying is expect it to be nearer 10-15 than the 4 miles and plan accordingly.
 

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Dave, I did this leg in Mar/Apr 13 - on our way to the Highlands! It took 2 days with temperatures as low as -6C - with a diversion via Whitby! I believe your proving trip, to Edinburgh, is feasible for several EVs - not just the Leaf! Indeed if we had participation with a BMW and a Zoe (and others) - that would be an even better demonstration of the feasibility.
I''ll take up the challenge on behalf of the Mitsubushi iMiev, if you can include me? I may get the 'wooden spoon' , but I think it can be done!
 

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Hi Brian, see post in the other thread.

The other useful thing I can confirm is that St Boswells is indeed 24/7 - that came from the council's Fleet Manager who is a very helpful and friendly.
Thanks Dave. Yes Borders CC are very much pro-EV and deserve to be in your PR loop. I will provide a contact, when I get back to UK.

Incidentally I used Pontisland (40 mins) to make NStB, with Jedburgh as a back stop. On the return it was Whitelees Cottages 1 hr), with Pontisland as the backstop. Both legs were in low temperatures, but there was no rain.

Finally, I've responded on the other thread - about the multi-vehicle issue; however, it's your call as to the profile of the event. Rgds.
 
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