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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, Looking for some help and advice on a home charger installation

Have just bought an 30kWh Leaf with 6.6kw charging option. Will be using for daily commuting typically 50-60 miles a day. Was planning to use a 3 pin and top up at local charge points occasionally with the 6.6kw charger - free public charging at work (5kw - Usually occupied unless in out of normal hours) and on the local village hall (7kw - never seen it in use).

Now wondering about the merits of installing a Smart charge point and using one of the octopus tariffs to charge at home, just for ease and convenience, as well as cheap rate charging.
thinking about an Ohme charger, only issue is the installation. We have a detached double garage with electric door, lights and 2 x 3pin sockets. Layout unfortunately means the garage is around the corner from the house and on the opposite side to the main distribution board.

Assuming I can’t use the existing cabling to the garage for this, so will need to run a cable either along the back of the house and down the garden wall with the charger on the outside of the garden wall (would need to hack back/remove a portion of the hedge), or underground to the garage. If going to the garage could I run alongside the existing cable? Assuming I would need to do (or pay someone to do) lots of digging for this though!
Would be grateful for any suggestions as to the best way to approach this for someone with very limited knowledge of electrics.
see pictures attached
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Renault ZOE R135 ZE50 GTLine July 2020 (Sold: R90 ZE40 i Dynamic Nav June 2017)
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Could you please provide a sketch of the layout of the property? Then it would be easier to understand what is going on.
 

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Future proof.

Swap cable from house db to garage db (if easy enough) the upgrade mcb marked garage and run charger from that.

If you can't swap cable over run a cable from dno encloser and install rcbo from Henley's on tails, clip it to wall, trench under oath and to were you want charger.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Could you please provide a sketch of the layout of the property? Then it would be easier to understand what is going on.
Here is a rough sketch hope it helps!

have put on the two possible sites I am thinking of for the charge point. Would be better to have it on the garage itself ideally , but was wondering if it might be easier to have on the wall next to the garage

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Take a photo from inside your dno enclosure. If you go on the yellow you'll be close to a basic install
 

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if it might be easier to have on the wall next to the garage
Slightly easier install, but you'll have to fight the hedge on a regular basis and having the loose cable to the car lying across the gate is bound to be a problem (ie. accident) one day.
From what I can make out you'll only need to lift one paving slab to bury the cable to get across to the garage, and then it's just through the wall, turn left and out the front wall.

I'd actually be inclined to go underground at the end of the wall from the house DB. You'll need to lift a row of patio slabs and then once far enough out turn left and head to the back of the garage. That would avoid a messy route round the walls with various drainpipes and phone service ducts to work round. Tidier, but more work of course.
 

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I'd check the size of the existing cable first just in case it's big enough. If it's 6mm or greater you would be OK however this is a bit of a long shot. I'm a developer and on our houses we install a 6mm cable to the garages to allow for a charging station however I'm not too sure if many other developers do?
 

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Thanks for the sketch - really helpful. As @Jrtev says, a photo of the inside of the DNO enclosure would also help, so we can see if there is room for anything inside it. You look to be short on space in your consumer unit.

It looks as though you have a few options for routing the cable. To get round the house you could:
  1. Run it around the bottom of the house, under the doors. It would be very visible, but that would be the route most electricians would take. Very sensible.
  2. Run it up the wall above the DNO enclosure, then across the loft, and finally down the end wall of the house to the top of the garden wall. A number of forum members have used this approach, putting the cable in themselves before the electrician starts.
  3. Take up flags everywhere and dig - here for completeness only really. Huge task.
To get from the house to the EVSE then you can run along the base of the garden wall or take up the flags. If the hedge is not too thorny, you could run it along the outside of the wall, behind the hedge, to hide it.

I agree with @mikegs that you should route the cable under the flags to get from the end of the wall to the garage. You could consider mounting the EVSE inside the garage and having a small cut in the door frame to let you charge outside if you wish (and ever put the car in the garage).

@Guru 's comment on checking the existing cable size is a good one. Is there any possibility that you will ever have two EVs and two chargers? if you might, you could consider running 10mm2 cable to future proof - check with your electrician on cable sizing. (The second EVSE would be set up to monitor the total current to the house and limit the current it takes to ensure the DNO fuse was not overloaded.)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the replies, very helpful!
In terms of the next step is it best to get a local electrician in to do an assessment or one of the EV charge point installation companies? Leaning towards a charge point in the garage now as it looks like the cost difference won’t be massive either way.
here is a pic of the DNO enclosure:

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The DNO enclosure should have enough space in it for a small consumer unit with the correct RCD for the EVSE. However, some DNOs may have a restriction on what can be put in their enclosure. You'll need to get your electrician / installer to check. I'd start by choosing the EVSE you want to install, finding an installer for it that is registered for the grant, and then getting them to check everything. Alternatively, you could work with a local electrician (not registered for the grant) and work with them to install the cable up to the installation location. A grant-registered installer can then fit the EVSE. Of course, if you don't need the grant (which requires a SMART EVSE) then you can work with any qualified electrician.
 

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Personally id redo the cable supplying the garage with a Buried armored cable.
the Consumer Unit in the house could then have the supply upgraded to the garage with a larger fuse.
then in the garage a new consumer unit with more space in for a charging point but also leave another 2 spaces for future proofing.

This then would allow you to get a basic install done or something like a Commando Socket (32amp) for an ohme charger with Octopus. It can work out cheaper this way than lots of other charge point offerings, excluding the rewiring work. If you can run the cabling yourself and the sparkie completing the work is happy with you doing it, then it could reduce costs.
 

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You need to get quotes from installation companies. I would try two nationwide ones (PODPoint, Chargemaster, etc) and a couple of local.

If viable, the cheapest option would be to move the garage 20A MCB to the non-RCD side of your CU (consumer unit) and install a new garage CU with a 20A Type A (or B) RCBO. You could then install a 16A charging point on the existing cabling. Ideally the point would have load monitoring (PODPoint offer as standard) so if you were using a garage socket, the charging point would suspend or reduce charging. Be careful, the RCBO needs to be Type A or B RCD and not the current curve! Most new points only require Type A, but some still need Type B (for better DC protection).

Upgrading the cable to the garage to allow 32A would be a lot of work and cost, so you need to work out if there would be a return on that. It takes a lot of saving on electric to recoup possibly £1000 of install costs. Also depends how long you expect to live there.

If you want 32A charging, personally I wouldn't connect it to that old reg, plastic CU. I would be looking to either replace it (I would go all RCBO) or split supply to a separate metal CU for charging. You have an isolation switch which makes the latter easier.

Edit - Do NOT let anyone connect a charging point to the existing house RCD as you are highly likely to get nuisance tripping (there can be safety issues too). We had our first charging point in 2013 installed that way (was allowed back then) and is what made us pay our spark to split our supply. We got him to fit a dedicated CU to accommodate two charging points and then Chargemaster installed the second.
 

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You can easily top up on a 13a socket for your needs overnight. Perhaps just use that for a couple of months and see how you get on. You could save yourself a lot of money and hassle if you find 13a charging is fine for your use.
 

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You can easily top up on a 13a socket for your needs overnight. Perhaps just use that for a couple of months and see how you get on. You could save yourself a lot of money and hassle if you find 13a charging is fine for your use.
As I have said in a few threads, I would be wary of using a portable EVSE on a circuit connected to a house Type AC RCD on a regular basis. If the portable EVSE includes DC protection (few do) it will help, but there are still risks (RCD blinding, PME neutral faults, etc) which is why fixed EVSE have strict regulations now.

Obviously everyone has to make their own decision of what risks they take in life, but there is no guarantee doing so will always be "fine".
 

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Discussion Starter #15
thanks for all the advice although I have to admit a lot of it is over my head, very little knowledge of electrics have always paid someone qualified to do it!
Had an online quote back from smarthomecharge - see below. sent them a video and photos.
seems a good price but can anyone advise if the setup proposed will cause me any issues?
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As I have said in a few threads, I would be wary of using a portable EVSE on a circuit connected to a house Type AC RCD on a regular basis. If the portable EVSE includes DC protection (few do) it will help, but there are still risks (RCD blinding, PME neutral faults, etc) which is why fixed EVSE have strict regulations now.

Obviously everyone has to make their own decision of what risks they take in life, but there is no guarantee doing so will always be "fine".
Had thought to charge from the standard socket initially but when I tried it the other day I checked after a few hours and the socket was red hot - I think this was my fault as I used a 10A extension cord, but it didn’t trip out and think I may have narrowly avoided burning my garage down! As I said electrics are not my forte - have not charged at home since, used the local free charge point and nearby rapid charger.
you have a good point about cost of install vs savings but we will hopefully be here until moving to a bungalow in 30 odd years so plenty of time to recoup the cost. plus would feel happier re electrical safety aspect!
 

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so plenty of time to recoup the cost. plus would feel happier re electrical safety aspect!
I certainly wouldn't recommend anything but a safe solution, which is why I responded negatively to the idea of using a portable EVSE.

That quote is probably fair and they are proposing to install from your electric meter, which is common practice. I would get other quotes, the OHME unit is OK but doesn't have a lot of field data on reliability, longterm support, etc. If you are keen to use Octopus type tarrifs then also look at the tie up between ev.energy and Rolec. See https://ev.energy/solutions/for-ev-owners/ Also, one benefit of a large company like BP Chargemaster is you know they will be around to honor the 3 year warranty.

Incidentally, as you plan to live there a while, for better safety you might want to replace that home CU as many circuits have no RCD protection.
 

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you have a good point about cost of install vs savings but we will hopefully be here until moving to a bungalow in 30 odd years so plenty of time to recoup the cost. plus would feel happier re electrical safety aspect!
There aren't really any savings to be had unless you get heavily into the off-peak and solar games. It's really about safety and convenience.

Even if you did end up moving in a few years, a good charge point installation will add some value or attractiveness to the property, so won't be a total loss. Almost every week we have enquiries here about new EV or EV and new house - and it's only going to get more common.
 

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No all advice confirms you must not charge using an extension cable. The Granny needs to be plugged into the mains socket directly.

I have charged using my Granny cable as my main method of charging for years now and without any issues. The socket has never got hot. See DM sent to you earlier

Personally I would give it a couple of months just using the Granny. If that does all you need, then it will save you best part of a thousand quid.
 

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As I have said in a few threads, I would be wary of using a portable EVSE on a circuit connected to a house Type AC RCD on a regular basis. If the portable EVSE includes DC protection (few do) it will help, but there are still risks (RCD blinding, PME neutral faults, etc) which is why fixed EVSE have strict regulations now.

Obviously everyone has to make their own decision of what risks they take in life, but there is no guarantee doing so will always be "fine".
I suspect the risk of actually driving a car on a public road is far higher then the risk of using the granny charger (if your home electrics are sound!)

Had thought to charge from the standard socket initially but when I tried it the other day I checked after a few hours and the socket was red hot - I think this was my fault as I used a 10A extension cord, but it didn’t trip out and think I may have narrowly avoided burning my garage down! As I said electrics are not my forte - have not charged at home since, used the local free charge point and nearby rapid charger.
you have a good point about cost of install vs savings but we will hopefully be here until moving to a bungalow in 30 odd years so plenty of time to recoup the cost. plus would feel happier re electrical safety aspect!
As others has said using an extension lead for a prolonged high load is always a bad idea especially if it's a coiled one. Maybe a short heavy duty lead would be OK but even then I'd avoid it if possible.

No all advice confirms you must not charge using an extension cable. The Granny needs to be plugged into the mains socket directly.

I have charged using my Granny cable as my main method of charging for years now and without any issues. The socket has never got hot. See DM sent to you earlier

Personally I would give it a couple of months just using the Granny. If that does all you need, then it will save you best part of a thousand quid.
I'm getting a charger installed just because it's easy to do on our house however I wouldn't be that concerned about granny charging even if I wasn't. We currently only have the granny charger and in use neither it or the plug generate any heat. That said we have fairly modern electrics which isn't going to be the same for all houses.
 
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