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Home charger installation advice?

6K views 39 replies 12 participants last post by  AnotherJoe 
#1 ·
Hi.

Just to be clear. I am currently saving for the purchase of an EV (smart ED 2017) and hope to make purchase early 2018. I have been thinking recently about the home charger installation. And any preparations I could make. I have heard many things that concern me regarding the install and my situation and wondered if anyone could shine some light. Not having a home charger makes EV purchase pointless. With nearest street charger 2 miles away.

I plan to install the chargemaster tethered unit into my garage/carport.

Problem is. The main power incoming, meter and main CU are located in centre of house (mid terrace) on an internal wall under the stairs. This is 25m (approx) away from the only viable location for install. I have another small CU in the garage for lights and sockets in the garden and garage, fed with power via a 4mm armoured cable. This CU is full. The main CU has two free switch locations if that helps.

The other issue is. The garage and adjacent car port, and all external boundary walls are timber construction. Buildings are built off of a concrete base about 30cm high. I intend the charge point to be installed on the wall of the garage which is timber clad on thick timber stud work.

I am sorry if this is a long question. But you can hopefully see my issues here. I will payvwgat I need to pay to make it work. But don't know what to do to make this work.

Any help appreciated.
 
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#2 ·
In your case I would probably fit a bigger CU in garage and connect the charger to it. Is MCB for garage circuit (in main CU) 20A or higher?
 
#3 ·
Fuse installed is 20a. I suppose it could be replaced if needed. Would you suggest new cable run also. Electrician installed 4mm armoured down garden. But supplied by 2.5mm cable through house. I thought this was weird. But he said was ok.

A very good thought though.
 
#5 ·
Buried 4mm SWA has a maximum current rating of a bit over 40A. the 2.5mm maxes out around 20-25 though. Potentially you can simply replace the 2.5mm internal section with some 6mm (or larger, depending on the installation method) and upgrade the breaker to 40A.

You can then swap the garage CU out for a larger one, and install the charger from there.
 
#6 ·
Hi.

Just to be clear. I am currently saving for the purchase of an EV (smart ED 2017) and hope to make purchase early 2018. I have been thinking recently about the home charger installation. And any preparations I could make. I have heard many things that concern me regarding the install and my situation and wondered if anyone could shine some light. Not having a home charger makes EV purchase pointless. With nearest street charger 2 miles away.

I plan to install the chargemaster tethered unit into my garage/carport.

Problem is. The main power incoming, meter and main CU are located in centre of house (mid terrace) on an internal wall under the stairs. This is 25m (approx) away from the only viable location for install. I have another small CU in the garage for lights and sockets in the garden and garage, fed with power via a 4mm armoured cable. This CU is full. The main CU has two free switch locations if that helps.

The other issue is. The garage and adjacent car port, and all external boundary walls are timber construction. Buildings are built off of a concrete base about 30cm high. I intend the charge point to be installed on the wall of the garage which is timber clad on thick timber stud work.

I am sorry if this is a long question. But you can hopefully see my issues here. I will payvwgat I need to pay to make it work. But don't know what to do to make this work.

Any help appreciated.
Why don't you just get a quotation from one of the usual charge point installers? They will ask all the relevant questions and probably ask for photos of what you have to get an idea of what will be necessary. Don't involve an electrician unless you have to as that will just add cost. To get a new cable from your main CU to the install point can be done internally (through floors, say), externally exposed (fitted to wall - ugly but simple and cheap), or externally underground.
 
#7 ·
Fuse installed is 20a. I suppose it could be replaced if needed. Would you suggest new cable run also. Electrician installed 4mm armoured down garden. But supplied by 2.5mm cable through house. I thought this was weird. But he said was ok.

A very good thought though.
The electrician said it was OK because he was basing his calculations on the max you would be running in the garage at the time, by installing a 32A charger you are increasing the power requirements considerably, 2.5mm isn't big enough for a 7kW charger, should be a minimum of 4mm but maybe needs to be larger due to the distance involved.

The only way to know for sure is to get an installer to carry out a site survey.
 
#8 ·
Buried 4mm SWA has a maximum current rating of a bit over 40A. the 2.5mm maxes out around 20-25 though. Potentially you can simply replace the 2.5mm internal section with some 6mm (or larger, depending on the installation method) and upgrade the breaker to 40A.

You can then swap the garage CU out for a larger one, and install the charger from there.
Personally I would get an electrician to make those upgrades and then book an install.

IMO the charger companies aren't interested in upgrading your electrics (not their core business) so I suspect would provide an expensive quote for the additional work.
 
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#10 ·
Yes. It will come with a 13amp lead. And I could use that. Though I have got 4 months or so before I am in a position to order the car. Then there is the lead time for manufacture and delivery. So. Aroubdc5 or so months before delivery. I am just trying to sort out as much now. To save leaving it to the last minute.
 
#15 ·
Hi.

Just to be clear. I am currently saving for the purchase of an EV (smart ED 2017) and hope to make purchase early 2018. I have been thinking recently about the home charger installation. And any preparations I could make. I have heard many things that concern me regarding the install and my situation and wondered if anyone could shine some light. Not having a home charger makes EV purchase pointless. With nearest street charger 2 miles away.

I plan to install the chargemaster tethered unit into my garage/carport.

Problem is. The main power incoming, meter and main CU are located in centre of house (mid terrace) on an internal wall under the stairs. This is 25m (approx) away from the only viable location for install. I have another small CU in the garage for lights and sockets in the garden and garage, fed with power via a 4mm armoured cable. This CU is full. The main CU has two free switch locations if that helps.

The other issue is. The garage and adjacent car port, and all external boundary walls are timber construction. Buildings are built off of a concrete base about 30cm high. I intend the charge point to be installed on the wall of the garage which is timber clad on thick timber stud work.

I am sorry if this is a long question. But you can hopefully see my issues here. I will payvwgat I need to pay to make it work. But don't know what to do to make this work.

Any help appreciated.
 
#16 ·
Hi I bought my 67 plate Smart ED 6 weeks ago. I had all sorts of reservations most of which have turned out to be totally unnecessary. My mileage is actually very low so a once a week charge overnight using a 13 amp granny plug is very easy. We also are in the process of applying for a Chargemaster tethered unit as my husband has just purchased a Golf GTE but realistically we manage easily having access to a double 13 amp plug point. Smart will be introducing a 22kw version next year which will have rapid charge capability and therefore having a 7kw charging point would be useful. If however you have easy access to a 13amp plug in your garage this I believe would be sufficient.
 
#17 ·
Please check the double socket is not getting warm/hot. If these cars are drawing 10A its the equivlent of plugging 2 2.5kW bar fires in at the same time. Double sockets are not really suitable for two very heavy loads at once.

If they are not charging together then fine. The extra speed and safety of the chargmaster I think you'll like
 
#18 ·
Hi I bought my 67 plate Smart ED 6 weeks ago. I had all sorts of reservations most of which have turned out to be totally unnecessary. My mileage is actually very low so a once a week charge overnight using a 13 amp granny plug is very easy. We also are in the process of applying for a Chargemaster tethered unit as my husband has just purchased a Golf GTE but realistically we manage easily having access to a double 13 amp plug point. Smart will be introducing a 22kw version next year which will have rapid charge capability and therefore having a 7kw charging point would be useful. If however you have easy access to a 13amp plug in your garage this I believe would be sufficient.
A good suggestion. However. The circuit I have at the moment woukd not be sufficient. With a lathe, saws and other power tools off if it. Lights. And heaters. Plus. The cable size which I have stated as being 2.5mm would still need to be upgraded. So. Installing a charge point for extra speed and confidence would still be my option. Plus. If I ever get a change of EV then I am setup.

I hope you are getting on well with your Smart car. As I hope i will. You say you only charge once or so a week. Will probably be the same for myself. Though with commuting too. Might need charging before weekend.

You say about the 22kw coming out. I don't see the point. It will probably add cost to an already expensive purchase (for me anyway)
 
#20 ·
A good suggestion. However. The circuit I have at the moment woukd not be sufficient. With a lathe, saws and other power tools off if it. Lights. And heaters. Plus. The cable size which I have stated as being 2.5mm would still need to be upgraded. So. Installing a charge point for extra speed and confidence would still be my option. Plus. If I ever get a change of EV then I am setup.

I hope you are getting on well with your Smart car. As I hope i will. You say you only charge once or so a week. Will probably be the same for myself. Though with commuting too. Might need charging before weekend.

You say about the 22kw coming out. I don't see the point. It will probably add cost to an already expensive purchase (for me anyway)
Disregard the other things like lathe and saws. As long as you are charging don't use them. If you do worst thing would be you trip your breaker.
Ideally a full new 6mm cable from CU to a dedicated chargepoint but if you need to do it on a budget I am sure you will find. I pretty much only use an EVSE to keep 2 Leafs charged.
 
#19 ·
Hi I bought my 67 plate Smart ED 6 weeks ago. I had all sorts of reservations most of which have turned out to be totally unnecessary. My mileage is actually very low so a once a week charge overnight using a 13 amp granny plug is very easy. We also are in the process of applying for a Chargemaster tethered unit as my husband has just purchased a Golf GTE but realistically we manage easily having access to a double 13 amp plug point. Smart will be introducing a 22kw version next year which will have rapid charge capability and therefore having a 7kw charging point would be useful. If however you have easy access to a 13amp plug in your garage this I believe would be sufficient.
One question I have for you. What was the delivery time like when you ordered the Smart car. I assume it was brand new.
 
#22 ·
Hopefully you have RCD protection anyway to your garage CU.
If you put a single socket in close to your car then charging overnight while everything else is off will not be a problem.
Not sure I get your thinking on the 6mm SWA in this configuration.
 
#23 ·
Well. Yes main CU has RCD protection. So that's covered. I assume you mean. Install a new cable from the main CU (in centre of house) to a single socket in the garage dedicated to the EV. This run would include 20m of SWA cable in the garden to the garage.

Doing this would also mean if I want to get a 7kw car charger installed anytime. The circuit is already there for the installer to utilise.
 
#24 ·
Well. Yes main CU has RCD protection. So that's covered. I assume you mean. Install a new cable from the main CU (in centre of house) to a single socket in the garage dedicated to the EV. This run would include 20m of SWA cable in the garden to the garage.

Doing this would also mean if I want to get a 7kw car charger installed anytime. The circuit is already there for the installer to utilise.
Not really, my suggestion was a quick fix costing very little to implement using your existing set up.

But if you are willing to going to the trouble and expense of running a 6mm SWA in then go for the dedicated feed to a proper chargepoint. They dont cost much or are free depending on who you use and what chargepoint as long as you are eligible for the OLEV grant.
 
#27 · (Edited)
One question I have for you. What was the delivery time like when you ordered the Smart car. I assume it was brand new.
Actually I wanted to buy the demonstrator which was up for sale but was persuaded to buy brand new as it was a better deal. I was told there was a new one coming into group the next week and all I needed to do was put a deposit on it. Essentially I waited one week. I was prepared to buy but was persuaded by Kristoff (Smart MK) that it would be better to do a PCP particularly as 1) New model 22kw version next year 2) Smart will be fully electric by 2020 and cease all petrol versions. By PCP'ing I was protecting the future value. Our accountant also confirmed that a PCP was a better way to go. Because I went for the 2 year deal ( I do have the option to change in either 18months or extend it to 3years) £3000 deposit and £249pm. Yes its expensive for half a car....but I love it and its much more useable than I realised. September I was getting 95 miles to a charge since colder weather about 89/90. I expect if temps really drop 75-80.
I may be missing the points you are making about your supply but unless you are doing more than 80 miles a day and need to charge more than once a day from home then an overnight charge (about 7 hrs for full charge) isn't going to interfere with any other equipment.
 
#29 ·
Thanks for getting back to me on that. It' nice hearing from a fellow owner of my soon to be car. And good to hear positive things.

I see the point with pcp deal. Something to consider I suppose. At current. My plan is to buy outright at purchase and get my own choice of colours (grey body/Orange tridion) in the premium model.

I have a 10 mile round trip commute. So my mileage will be next to nothing. And weekend driving will also be very little. I will weigh up whether a standlone standard plug socket would be ok. Even if I then upgrade to a 7kw charger in the future. The 22kw version is, for my use, overkill. Especially if it adds cost. The 7kw version will be sufficient for me I feel. I mean. Until a year ago I was considering buying a twizy, so let' face it, 7kw is more than the twizy as is the range.
 
#28 ·
Please check the double socket is not getting warm/hot. If these cars are drawing 10A its the equivlent of plugging 2 2.5kW bar fires in at the same time. Double sockets are not really suitable for two very heavy loads at once.

If they are not charging together then fine. The extra speed and safety of the chargmaster I think you'll like

Initially I kept running out to check plug......remained cool and no we don't charge together. Thank you
 
#32 ·
Yeah, I was just thinking that myself. I think, on the balance, just spending on the charger upfront will, in the long term work out being better, guaranteeing I get the money off, and have a future proofed setup. For just my car it is a bit overkill, though I can see my housemate getting an EV potentially a few years down the line, so would be good for them too.
 
#33 ·
It is always good to get some of our hard earned taxes given to us to our direct benefit. I am still considering getting a second chargerpoint even though i dont use my first one much. Daft really.
In the future it could well be seen as a positive selling point on a property.
 
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#37 ·
Folks, advice please, as I am a novice with EVs and as yet do not own an EV. I may though soon take the plunge as most of our journeys on round trips are less than 100 miles. I am thinking of installing an EV charger as driveway has been dug and we have 3 phase supply.
From my reading above (though posts date back to 2015), I should be looking at 3 phase untethered. Is that still valid in terms of being able to charge the widest range of current and possibly future EVs?

Also, please advice re best company to approach for installing a charger (reliability and value). We have an electrician on site at the moment but he has not installed an EV charger before. Also, what sort of installed costs should I be looking at for a reliable installation?

Thank you.
 
#38 ·
Are you in the U.K.? 3 phase is very unusual for a domestic supply.
3 phase chargers are also much more expensive than single phase so unless you have the need to charge your car to 80% in 30 minutes and can instead do it overnight, or at least a 3 hour charge would work for your travels / mileage’s, then a standard single phase 32amp charger is all you need.

Note also that if you wait until you have an EV you can have your install subsidised by the government (if you are in the U.K.) whereas if you have it installed now before you get an EV, you can’t. You could have cabling installed in readiness though.
 
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