[Broilster]

I'm planning on getting an EV in the not too distant future so I've been combing the threads on here on all things related to home charging and I have a few questions if anyone could give me the benefit of their wisdom, that would be great....
We have an ancient 60A fuse (which looks like it's made from Bakelite.)

a) Is having a 60A fuse an absolute deal breaker if we want to install a home charger? (We do occasionally run the dishwasher /washing machine/tumble dryer, though not usually later than say midnight.

We have a very old Wylex consumer unit which needs replacing and the tails from the meter to the consumer unit are 12mm squared.

b) Do I book an electrician first to replace the consumer unit or...
Ring up the DNO and ask them to upgrade the fuse to a 100A fuse? (I've heard tell of Western Power Distribution refusing to do this) plus upgrade the tails?
Or do I ring up a home charger installer to get a quote first?

Also, I noticed that my next door neighbour has an old Rolec fitted, even though he doesn't have an EV. I think his son has a Prius so maybe he uses it when he visits, though I've never seen it plugged in.
Will it be an issue for the grid on our street, to have 2 houses next to each other with home chargers.

 

[cyclingaviator]

I wouldn’t stress over the 60amp main fuse. Mine is still 60amp and we have a PodPoint that sticks 7.2kWh in the car just fine. We have a dishwasher, tumbledryer and range electric oven.

Id suggest the consumer unit and other stuff will need attention. My advise would be get a spark in that also fits EVSEs and go from there. Do not get blinkered by ‘the grant’, if your installation is going to be even slightly off ‘standard’ you’re going to get frustrated. The consumer unit and general state of your electrics are the focus first, the EVSE is an add on.

 

[Somex]

I'm planning on getting an EV in the not too distant future so I've been combing the threads on here on all things related to home charging and I have a few questions if anyone could give me the benefit of their wisdom, that would be great....
We have an ancient 60A fuse (which looks like it's made from Bakelite.)

a) Is having a 60A fuse an absolute deal breaker if we want to install a home charger? (We do occasionally run the dishwasher /washing machine/tumble dryer, though not usually later than say midnight.

We have a very old Wylex consumer unit which needs replacing and the tails from the meter to the consumer unit are 12mm squared.

b) Do I book an electrician first to replace the consumer unit or...
Ring up the DNO and ask them to upgrade the fuse to a 100A fuse? (I've heard tell of Western Power Distribution refusing to do this) plus upgrade the tails?
Or do I ring up a home charger installer to get a quote first?

Also, I noticed that my next door neighbour has an old Rolec fitted, even though he doesn't have an EV. I think his son has a Prius so maybe he uses it when he visits, though I've never seen it plugged in.
Will it be an issue for the grid on our street, to have 2 houses next to each other with home chargers.

Assuming you are not on a looped supply...
I would FIRST ask DNO if they will change your fuse from 60 to either 80 or 100 AND change meter tails to 25mm ... between fuse and meter (I ran a 32amp..7kw charger until very recently on a 60 amp fuse with absolutely no issues... electric oven and hob but no electric shower or heating)
SECONDLY I would ask your energy supplier to change to a smets 2 smart meter AND also add an isolation switch between meter and consumer unit AND change tails between meter and isolation switch to 25mm
both first and second should be able to be achieved at no cost to you... DNO pays for first, energy supplier pays for second.
THIRDLY I would replace consumer unit and the tails between isolation switch and consumer unit to 25mm... YOU pay for this.
Cheapest way I know to do it and achieve what you ideally need.
Essentially anything before meter is down to DNO, anything between (and including) meter and consumer unit (OR ISOLATION SWITCH) is down to energy supplier, anything after meter (OR ISOLATION SWITCH) is down to you.
I did this... (with Western Power), who refused to upgrade fuse to 100 amp but happily changed from 60 to 80 amp
Strongly advise fitting an isolation switch if a suitable one is not present now (unlikely from what you have said)
FOURTHLY sort out your new EVSE and enjoy your EV

 

[Broilster]

Assuming you are not on a looped supply...
I would FIRST ask DNO if they will change your fuse from 60 to either 80 or 100 AND change meter tails to 25mm ... between fuse and meter (I ran a 32amp..7kw charger until very recently on a 60 amp fuse with absolutely no issues... electric oven and hob but no electric shower or heating)
SECONDLY I would ask your energy supplier to change to a smets 2 smart meter AND also add an isolation switch between meter and consumer unit AND change tails between meter and isolation switch to 25mm
both first and second should be able to be achieved at no cost to you... DNO pays for first, energy supplier pays for second.
THIRDLY I would replace consumer unit and the tails between isolation switch and consumer unit to 25mm... YOU pay for this.
Cheapest way I know to do it and achieve what you ideally need.
Essentially anything before meter is down to DNO, anything between (and including) meter and consumer unit (OR ISOLATION SWITCH) is down to energy supplier, anything after meter (OR ISOLATION SWITCH) is down to you.
I did this... (with Western Power), who refused to upgrade fuse to 100 amp but happily changed from 60 to 80 amp
Strongly advise fitting an isolation switch if a suitable one is not present now (unlikely from what you have said)
FOURTHLY sort out your new EVSE and enjoy your EV

Is there a possibility that the DNO will refuse the fuse and tails upgrade?
Also, In planning on changing the electricity supplier, does that matter, if I want them to install a smets 2 meter? Obviously. I don't need to tell them!

 

[cyclingaviator]

Is there a possibility that the DNO will refuse the fuse and tails upgrade?
Also, In planning on changing the electricity supplier, does that matter, if I want them to install a smets 2 meter? Obviously. I don't need to tell them!

Dealing with the cut out in isolation, they may decline to stick a 100A in there but it's highly unlikely they wont upgrade it to 80A.

Now adding the other stuff back in, as I understand it, the tails from the meter to said cut out are the responsibility of the energy supplier, not the DNO. As such the DNO will prossibly insist on the tails being upgraded first as you need 16mm for 80A and 25mm for 100A. They may do it for you, but then again they may not. Which is why personally I'd ignore the main fuse at this point.

 

[artyman]

I'm in a similar situation with a 60amp main fuse, but think I'm on a looped supply with next door, will the DNO change my supply to a single household at no cost to me. I've had a new consumer unit fitted recently, the tails to the meter look as though they are 16mm

 

[Broilster]

I'm in a similar situation with a 60amp main fuse, but think I'm on a looped supply with next door, will the DNO change my supply to a single household at no cost to me. I've had a new consumer unit fitted recently, the tails to the meter look as though they are 16mm

How do you know that you're on a looped supply?

 

[artyman]

Looks like the cable goes through the wall into next door

 

[Broilster]

Looks like the cable goes through the wall into next door

Ah ok, that makes sense.

 

[Somex]

Is there a possibility that the DNO will refuse the fuse and tails upgrade?
Also, In planning on changing the electricity supplier, does that matter, if I want them to install a smets 2 meter? Obviously. I don't need to tell them!

There is always a possibility that DNO will refuse, but they should give a valid reason for their refusal, not just a blank refusal.
I have had my existing energy supplier change my meter to smets 2 basically because they could (and did) do it quickly, Octopus who I may go to at some point in the future could not give me an assurance that they could change meter any time soon.
My existing energy supplier imposed no restrictions whatsoever when they changed my meter to smets 2

 

[Broilster]

There is always a possibility that DNO will refuse, but they should give a valid reason for their refusal, not just a blank refusal.
I have had my existing energy supplier change my meter to smets 2 basically because they could (and did) do it quickly, Octopus who I may go to at some point in the future could not give me an assurance that they could change meter any time soon.
My existing energy supplier imposed no restrictions whatsoever when they changed my meter to smets 2

Is having a smets 2 meter that critical?

 

[Somex]

Dealing with the cut out in isolation, they may decline to stick a 100A in there but it's highly unlikely they wont upgrade it to 80A.
What I said... (or at least what I meant to say!) in my case they refused 100 (based on the size cable for the supply from the road) but happily changed to 80 (although I had been successfully running with a 60, AND changed tails as well from 16 to 25)
I believe the tails from fuse to meter or isolation switch are down to DNO, but I suspect either DNO or energy supplier would change them as they are usually in close proximity to each other.
A friendly chat with DNO engineer or energy supplier meter installer should achieve a result!
It usually saves a re visit at a later date from either engineer to change tails.

Now adding the other stuff back in, as I understand it, the tails from the meter to said cut out are the responsibility of the energy supplier, not the DNO. As such the DNO will prossibly insist on the tails being upgraded first as you need 16mm for 80A and 25mm for 100A. They may do it for you, but then again they may not. Which is why personally I'd ignore the main fuse at this point.

I felt, (and still feel) is that the place to start is at the "beginning" IE where the supply enters your property, then work forward from there, what's the point in upgrading after that point as that will still be the "weakest link"... you can fit tails as thick as your wrist, and fit whatever electrical items in your house that are on the market if you wish but if the fuse is not capable of handling the capability of that load, why do it????

 

[Broilster]

I felt, (and still feel) is that the place to start is at the "beginning" IE where the supply enters your property, then work forward from there, what's the point in upgrading after that point as that will still be the "weakest link"... you can fit tails as thick as your wrist, and fit whatever electrical items in your house that are on the market if you wish but if the fuse is not capable of handling the capability of that load, why do it????

Yeah, that makes sense but if the DNO decline, where did that leave me? Unable to charge at home?

 

[cyclingaviator]

The main cut out isn’t there for the customer’s benefit, it’s for the DNOs. They will not upgrade if what’s downstream can’t handle it. From what the OP a initially said, the main fuse is not the weak link.

 

[Broilster]

The main cut out isn’t there for the customer’s benefit, it’s for the DNOs. They will not upgrade if what’s downstream can’t handle it. From what the OP a initially said, the main fuse is not the weak link.

Are we saying that a 60A fuse needn't be a deal breaker then?

 

[Somex]

The main cut out isn’t there for the customer’s benefit, it’s for the DNOs. They will not upgrade if what’s downstream can’t handle it. From what the OP a initially said, the main fuse is not the weak link.

Absolutely correct, I thought I agreed that 60 amp was probably OK based on the information given, my reply was in answer to the OP's question as to what order to do things in

 

[Somex]

Are we saying that a 60A fuse needn't be a deal breaker then?

That depends entirely on what other electrical items are potentially in use in the property.
A 32 amp EVSE will (in isolation) clearly not be an issue for a 60 amp fuse, but together with a host of other electrical items in use in the property, it may be an issue

 

[cyclingaviator]

Absolutely correct, I thought I agreed that 60 amp was probably OK based on the information given, my reply was in answer to the OP's question as to what order to do things in

I’m not a qualified electrician which is why, given how the existing installation sounds, I think getting an electrician in from the off is a good call. I just feel that the main fuse is probably the last thing to do as it may not actually be a problem.

I have a 60amp fuse and as it currently stands I'm not gonna bother getting it uprated. As I previously said, the only other big draws we have are the oven, dishwasher and tumbledryer. I have a PodPoint that supplies 7.2kWh fine and if it does sense its getting close to the 60A, it will throttle back. Unless we get something else drawing large amounts of power, I'll leave it at 60A

 

[Somex]

I’m not a qualified electrician which is why, given how the existing installation sounds, I think getting an electrician in from the off is a good call. I just feel that the main fuse is probably the last thing to do as it may not actually be a problem.

Just my opinion, you are entitled to yours also, it's a democratic society and forum
But... I repeat, my first (and subsequent posts) confirmed that in the absence of other (undisclosed) electrical loads in the property 60 amps would not in itself be an issue.

 

[Broilster]

Just my opinion, you are entitled to yours also, it's a democratic society and forum
But... I repeat, my first (and subsequent posts) confirmed that in the absence of other (undisclosed) electrical loads in the property 60 amps would not in itself be an issue.

In the morning we have the shower on and after work, at the maximum we may have on an induction hob, washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher, regular oven but we'd have to almost have to go out of our way to have those things on simultaneously. Obviously I could wait until later on to charge the car when most of not all of those things were off.