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Discussion Starter #1
OK perhaps not in the right place, but a few days ago a colleague took delivery of his shiny new Honda E.

Looks the Canines Cahonas, lush interior, though a tad fussy for my liking if I'm totes honest.

Thing is he does the same journey to work as me (lives round the corner) and at the same time of day ish so conditions similar and yet he got 3.3 m/kwh on his journey to work today (and he reckons that is the best he gets).

Whereas in clumpy lumpy old Leafy McLeaf Face I got 4.7 today (which is fairly usual too).

Now he drives around 5 mph faster for the 20 miles which are on the motorway, the remaining 5 miles we'd be roughly at the same suburban speed. And he admits to having his heated seats and steering wheel and AC on today, "because I paid for them" but still, this disparity seems quite extreme given how much newer the Honda tech is.

As another example we both drove 6 miles to the same Tesco today at lunchtime (it's not a bromance, he's just checking out the chargers) which was all slow 20-40 mph suburban, same speeds etc and he got 4.5 and I got 5.9!!!

Anybody else have an insight on this pressing matter in these unprecedented times?
 

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Well i never get near 4.7 in my LEAF. Its all about driving style really. Put him in the LEAF and he'll probably also be down in the low 3's.

Harsh accelleration and higher average cruising speed is simple physics.

Different people also report how they drive differently. Two people might both say they "drive at 70mph", but one is doing 77 indicated 70 actual, slowing down as little as possible with full throttle accelleration to get back to speed if hes had to slow for other traffic and generally doing everything possible to maintain that speed. The other guys driving at an indicated 70, but in a relaxed manner, happy to go with the flow in traffic where the speed is actually wandering around the 65-70 range with light throttle and zero urgency. Clearly the second guy is using a less energy, despite both of them claiming they are driving at the same speed.

I have a 38mile commute, most of its motorway, and my typical consumption range is 3.0-3.5mi/kwh.
My mate drives a model 3, also has a similar ~35mile motorway commute, and he too is in the low 3's
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Good points all. I was more surprised at the lunchtime comparison because there is zero scope for different driving style due to weight of traffic, speed limits and general road layouts.

I've been in a car with him driving albeit an ICE and he is a very calm steady driver not prone to outbursts on the naughty pedal.

I've just told him the consensus on line is that he's a shit driver 😆 He laughed.
 

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Leaf 30kWh, Outlander PHEV
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Also Honda E isn't the most efficient car from what I've read.

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Leaf 30kWh, Outlander PHEV
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I've managed 4.2 average though my wife pulls out down to 3.5.

I tend to use the regen breaking whereas she never did. It's all down to personal driving patterns.

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah I have picked up from him that he was aware that the m/kwh might not be amazing before he bought it.

I'm surprised, it is one of those things that I always assumed would just get better over time.

He also tells me it is a 35 kwh battery that only presents 28.5 as usable.........?

Any road up, its a nice moatah whatever the wigglyamps does.
 

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Leaf 30kWh, Outlander PHEV
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Yeah I have picked up from him that he was aware that the m/kwh might not be amazing before he bought it.

I'm surprised, it is one of those things that I always assumed would just get better over time.

He also tells me it is a 35 kwh battery that only presents 28.5 as usable.........?

Any road up, its a nice moatah whatever the wigglyamps does.
That just means depth of discharge is low and battery degradation should be low.

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Well i never get near 4.7 in my LEAF. Its all about driving style really. Put him in the LEAF and he'll probably also be down in the low 3's.

Harsh accelleration and higher average cruising speed is simple physics.

Different people also report how they drive differently. Two people might both say they "drive at 70mph", but one is doing 77 indicated 70 actual, slowing down as little as possible with full throttle accelleration to get back to speed if hes had to slow for other traffic and generally doing everything possible to maintain that speed. The other guys driving at an indicated 70, but in a relaxed manner, happy to go with the flow in traffic where the speed is actually wandering around the 65-70 range with light throttle and zero urgency. Clearly the second guy is using a less energy, despite both of them claiming they are driving at the same speed.

I have a 38mile commute, most of its motorway, and my typical consumption range is 3.0-3.5mi/kwh.
My mate drives a model 3, also has a similar ~35mile motorway commute, and he too is in the low 3's
4 was about average in my 30kWh Leaf, when driven carefully. 4.5 at a push.

It's easy to get 5 in my model 3 SR+ around town and keeping under 65 mph on the motorway.

The Honda doesn't look like the most aerodynamic of cars - but nonetheless, 3 is pretty dire.

I'd still love one as a second car though.
 

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2020 Corsa E
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One of the Carwow videos showed a fairly low miles per kWh in the Honda . That was bimbling around London at 20mph.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well I dunno what the hell I'm doing wrong then. I drive at the posted speed limit in urban settings and keep to a real gps 65 on the motorway which is 80 percent of my commute and today my round trip commute was 4.4 and my lifetime since getting it is 4.3.

Sure I could change my online name to Lord Wunbubble and not break the trade descriptions act, I take it easy ish on the acceleration but never to a ridiculous extreme and I'll play when required.

Starting to question the accuracy of my meter now.
 

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30KW Tekna (2017)
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Hmmmph! Taking other men to the chargers eh!?!?!? I've been waiting for an invite forever! I know you have 6, but what's he got? 7????

I get about the same as you, maybe slightly higher but I drive like a nun at 60 if I can.

I have had a revelation this week tho.......... Cruse control!!!!!!!!!

After so many reports that's its actually less economical, on a 100 mile journey at the weekend on M24 and M43 I have got the best range ever!

Today going to work I popped on cruise control and again, Im getting amazing range. Its fantastic too, the most relaxing drive Ive ever had and it feels like the car drives itself. Now I'm used to it, I set say 60mph, then if approach lights tap the break to pause it. To start back up just a little acceleration and press the knob up to "reset" and the car accelerates itself, very efficiently back up to the pre set speed.

Really surprised at how much better my MKW is with it.

ALSO, why the hell did he need heated seats and steering wheel today? It was hot down our way!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As I said he's paid for them so he wanted to use them! But they alone could not account for the difference in mkwh.

I have been driving everywhere on cruise control for years now, of course it's more economical.

BTW JM, his is tiny. The boot that is. OMG that would have been a deal breaker for me. Turns out size is very important.
 

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30KW Tekna (2017)
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As I said he's paid for them so he wanted to use them! But they alone could not account for the difference in mkwh.

I have been driving everywhere on cruise control for years now, of course it's more economical.

BTW JM, his is tiny. The boot that is. OMG that would have been a deal breaker for me. Turns out size is very important.
And anyone that tells you different is just trying to spare your feelings!

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 

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There's a big misconception about regen and B mode.

All B in the leaf or higher regen modes in other cars does is apply some of the extra regen that it usually held back for when you start to brake. It doesn't magically make the car more efficient, you can get that same level of extra regen by lightly applying the brake. (There's no denying B gives a more responsive feel to the Leaf though and mimics engine braking in a much more powerful ICE very well)

Regen isn't 100% efficient either, the difference between you and the wife is simply that she is a stereotypical late breaker (if you go past the point of max regen and use the discs then all the extra energy is waasted as heat through your disc brakes and pads) she might also drive at slightly higher sustained speeds than you do too.

Acceleration makes much much less of a difference in EVs than almost everyone seems to think, unlike an ICE where to accelerate strongly you have to rev the engine through the gears, in an EV the reduction of efficiency over a given distance is again mostly down to higher average sustained speed. Its possible to absolutely floor it away from every stop in a leaf and still get close to 5 miles per KWh around town

There is no escaping the laws of physics and drag increases with the square of speed, speed is the big range killer, esp in less efficient boxier shaped cars.
 

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Interestingly it seems the Leaf has a worse drag coefficient than the Honda and the Honda has a lower kerb weight, so either Honda's the heating/air con is much less efficient than the leaf or its mechanicals are not especially brilliant..
 

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Nissan Leaf Accenta 30kWh, 3.3kW, 2017
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For the few weeks' I have had my Leaf, I have been getting around 5.0 for my daily commute. It's 10 miles each way on mostly an A-road with 30-50mph speed limits. I do try to use the regen and anticipate slowing down; except for the last bit on a country road where people like to come barrelling around a corner trying to take the racing line and I have stamp on the brakes!
 

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hard accelleration is going to be less efficient, due to i^2r losses in the battery to the motor and everything in between.

Oddly enough, hard accelleration in an ICE can be MORE efficient, as a typical engines peak BSFC is near peak torque. As long as you dont rev it high, using full throttle but keeping it near the torque peak is usually the most efficient point an ICE will operate at.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
All B in the leaf or higher regen modes in other cars does is apply some of the extra regen that it usually held back for when you start to brake. It doesn't magically make the car more efficient, you can get that same level of extra regen by lightly applying the brake. (There's no denying B gives a more responsive feel to the Leaf though and mimics engine braking in a much more powerful ICE very well)
Hmmm, well that's good knowledge and I hadnt thought of it like that. I mean I know that when you start to apply the brakes the regen kicks in first but hadnt really made the connection in my head that the brakes essentially just start by kicking in the equivalent of B mode before the metal grinding starts. I personally dont like the feel of B mode but have been using it for urban driving though always turn it off on motorways and similar.

Based on what you say I might try leaving it off for a while.

Quick thought though, are the Leaf brakes essentially the same power/size as any other similar size/weight vehicle? Or put another way, they dont have smaller brakes that rely on the slack being taken up by regen.
 

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There's a big misconception about regen and B mode.

All B in the leaf or higher regen modes in other cars does is apply some of the extra regen that it usually held back for when you start to brake. It doesn't magically make the car more efficient, you can get that same level of extra regen by lightly applying the brake. (There's no denying B gives a more responsive feel to the Leaf though and mimics engine braking in a much more powerful ICE very well)

Regen isn't 100% efficient either, the difference between you and the wife is simply that she is a stereotypical late breaker (if you go past the point of max regen and use the discs then all the extra energy is waasted as heat through your disc brakes and pads) she might also drive at slightly higher sustained speeds than you do too.

Acceleration makes much much less of a difference in EVs than almost everyone seems to think, unlike an ICE where to accelerate strongly you have to rev the engine through the gears, in an EV the reduction of efficiency over a given distance is again mostly down to higher average sustained speed. Its possible to absolutely floor it away from every stop in a leaf and still get close to 5 miles per KWh around town

There is no escaping the laws of physics and drag increases with the square of speed, speed is the big range killer, esp in less efficient boxier shaped cars.
Err I tend to plan a bit ahead (motorcycle habits) and let the car coast (leaf makes it difficult but easy in Outlander).

Yes it's hard/ late braking that uses disc rather than regen / recovery that causes a drop in overall efficiency

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Quick thought though, are the Leaf brakes essentially the same power/size as any other similar size/weight vehicle? Or put another way, they dont have smaller brakes that rely on the slack being taken up by regen.
The LEAF has bigger brakes discs than the Nissan Pulsar - 296mm vs 280mm. The Pulsar was a similar size product from the same manufacturer but weighed about 20% less.

Any decent Physicist / Mathematician / Engineer knows that weight is less significant in terms of kinetic energy that velocity - the latter has a squared effect. So really it is more down to usage than anything else. I suspect that LEAF brakes would fail on a race track very quickly, even before the battery ran out, due to the restricted airflow around them. However, that is not the car's natural habitat where Eco-driving and Regen play a much bigger part.
 
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