Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,878 Posts
Not a very good Top Secret if everyone is now reading it:D
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
604 Posts
Elon musk prompted this by releasing his patents for them to use. Tesla couldn't sell cars into a market that wasn't there. 'the big 3'will now provide him with that market. By the time these cars are released, tesla will be 5 steps ahead.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
939 Posts
Its hard for the established names to compete. Force majeure orphaned engine and gearbox plants going cheap in Germany in 5 years time!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,865 Posts
Its hard for the established names to compete. Force majeure orphaned engine and gearbox plants going cheap in Germany in 5 years time!
I'm not sure I buy that, and I own a Tesla ;)

The German firms have all the engineers, supply chain, logistics, cash, brand loyalty and dealer relationships to create and market a Tesla clone (and would be really surprised if there isn't more than one prototype one out there somewhere)

I've been lucky enough to have had a go in an i8, and left feeling pretty cold about it TBH. But there's an 18 month waiting list, and you can make £50k selling your spot in the queue. This just tells me the masses are more than 5 years away from being convinced.

I suspect they are looking at the sales figures closely, and when they see enough of a market (one that isn't heavily skewed by legislation and taxation) they will jump in. Tesla will probably sell 33,00 cars this year, MB sell that in a fortnight without breaking a sweat.... Here in the UK the taxation benefits are being heavily eroded, and unfortunately with that will come an erosion of Tesla's market. (I know it's a pimple on the backside of Tesla's global sales, but what's not to say other governments don't follow suit?)

Personally I'm surprised Mercedes didn't acquire Tesla, it would have been a natural fit. Who knows maybe that was Daimler's original plan, but then the share price went silly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,817 Posts
It could go either way.

Most large corporates become inwardly focused; you progress by saying "yes" to your boss regardless of the evidence or truth. That's one reason Nissan is a bit too far ahead of the market with introducing cheap EVs :)

The German firms do have immense brand loyalty and can abuse that to achieve sales (e.g. the current crop of e-Somethings are all equipped with 3.3 kW chargers and aim for no more range than a 2010 Leaf, plus everything else is extra). That will give them a tremendous advantage and even if the engineers etc. are hamstrung by corporate politics (e.g. ICE division fights the EV division) they can ride it out on the back of loyal customers.

But, a company like Tesla which knows how to play the politicians and has a single game plan - well, that gives it an advantage all of its own. Plus at the moment there are people who attach more brand-snobbery to "I drive a Tesla" than they do to "I drive a MB". That will help Tesla, if not anyone else.

I'm still wondering about the taxation changes. It seems too early for HM Treasury to make much significant extra revenue from the change, so is it about appeasing the oil lobby? Maybe that's why petrol is now cheaper - a way to keep the recovery going and avoid a slip back into recession?

Bigger questions!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,865 Posts

Okay. It is what I want to happen. I often get 'want' and 'will' confused :D
lol, I suspect most of us here would want that too. Unfortuantely we are but tiny cogs in a very big machine :D


@BlackLeaf
I suspect in no small part the Audi/VW offerings will prove popular because you aren't asking people to not only change the propulsion but also go for something more radically styled.

Why do EVs have to have look weird, when the manufacturers make their petrol and diesel versions look identical?


Actually the next gen Leaf spy-shots do actually look like Nissan are going this route too, which is great news for wider adoption IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
939 Posts
All good EV's should be ground - up designs IMO. How do you make a good EV Golf look like a Golf? ... You can't. How do you make a good EV B Class Mercedes look like a B Class Mercedes? The battery pack has to be under the floor pan. Compliance cars are like an excuse you once made for being late for school.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,939 Posts
The ground-up EVs often seem to have as many compromises as the "adapted" vehicles from what I can see. Strange configurations, lumps in luggage compartments, cubby holes, dead space where an "engine" and it's bits might be.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
604 Posts
I wonder if the car companies are worried about loss of service revenue? I owned a Mercedes and could never leave a dealership without crossing their palms with at least £500 worth ofsilver ppieces.

I'm promised the service on the zoe is £64. I'm sure the usual attempt at upselling brake pads and wipers will happen but I will resist as usual.

Dealerships don't make money on new cars and re-coup it on servicing which will be much harder to justify on an ev.

My last ice dealer was blagging 2.25 hours for a service that the manufacturer confirmed was a 1.5hr job.

Oil addiction is going to take a lot longer to overcome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,817 Posts
...
Why do EVs have to have look weird, when the manufacturers make their petrol and diesel versions look identical?
Ah well, there is a paper from around 2011 where economists have actually identified a paradigm of "Conspicuous Conservationism". Like Conspicuous Consumption, the idea is to show off how green you are. Their study showed that the Prious outsold other hybrids because the other hybrids looked just like the gasoline variant. People needed others to identify their expenditure.

It rather reminds me of a friend who was disappointed when his Quattro-Turbo-Nutter Audi arrived and non-petrolheads couldn't tell it was any different to the regular one. He took to stroking the gear lever to point out the 6th ratio (this was way back when five gears was the norm). The first time he did it I was rather alarmed, thinking it was a bizarre mating ritual ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,207 Posts
Ah well, there is a paper from around 2011 where economists have actually identified a paradigm of "Conspicuous Conservationism". Like Conspicuous Consumption, the idea is to show off how green you are. Their study showed that the Prious outsold other hybrids because the other hybrids looked just like the gasoline variant. People needed others to identify their expenditure.

It rather reminds me of a friend who was disappointed when his Quattro-Turbo-Nutter Audi arrived and non-petrolheads couldn't tell it was any different to the regular one. He took to stroking the gear lever to point out the 6th ratio (this was way back when five gears was the norm). The first time he did it I was rather alarmed, thinking it was a bizarre mating ritual ...
I worked with a guy who converted his 2wd Audi to quatro by means of stickers. When he broke down the AA man said I can't tow this as its a quatro. The prat said nowt and waited for a flatbed...!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,865 Posts
I worked with a guy who converted his 2wd Audi to quatro by means of stickers. When he broke down the AA man said I can't tow this as its a quatro. The prat said nowt and waited for a flatbed...!
Hmmm... I wonder how much P85D stickers would cost :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,954 Posts
Elon musk prompted this by releasing his patents for them to use. Tesla couldn't sell cars into a market that wasn't there. 'the big 3'will now provide him with that market. By the time these cars are released, tesla will be 5 steps ahead.
I do not know much about the politics of motor industries and battery industries, but I suspect Elon has a far bigger agenda on his mind!!
By releasing his patents, he's hoping the big 3 will also produce EVs, so his Giga factory will guarantee certain sales of his batteries productions
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top