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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, Can anyone answer these 2 questions for me.

1, Both our zoe's are the 22kw charging versions, I know that rapid charging is not too good for the batteries but 22k, would this likely cause an issue?

The reason I ask is near work there is a free Rapid and I am topping up 20 - 40% a day on it.

2. The new Zoe is the z.e.40 type, with the battery being bigger would fast charging at 22kw be less of an issue ( less stress ) or do you need more cells for that to be the case ?

Cheers.
 

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I wouldn't worry about it. Some Zoe owners regularly charge on 22kw posts. I'm not so sure about the Zoe but wouldn't see why it's any different but most EV's are quite resilient and rapid charging doesn't do them much harm. I'm not even sure if 22kw is rapid charging.
 

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It shouldn't be a problem, on the 22kWh car you are effectively charging at a 1C rate which lithium ion batteries handle with ease. The charging rate for the 41kWh battery is at just over 0.5C rate so there is even less stress on the battery. The battery controller limits sets the charging rate and throttles it as the battery approaches full it also limits the charging rate depending on temperature. Zoe has forced air cooling of the battery which also helps.

I know the chemistry is modified on hybrid cars but with their smaller batteries the charging and discharge rates are an order of magnitude higher than those on a pure EV and they don't appear to suffer damage. They also go through far more charge and discharge cycles than a BEV.
 

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No one has spotted my deliberate mistake (not), the 22kWh car actually has a 26kWh battery so the charging rate is lower than 1C and similarly with the 41kWh usable battery the true capacity is also higher.
 

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No issues at all, all of the dealers have 22kW charging points (some have the 43kW but not many) so I think Renault would have been setting them up for some issues if was going to cause a problem.

The car does a very good job of looking after the batteries and varying the charging rate to the optimal level given the current condition of the battery so I would not worry too much about the charger.
 
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all of the dealers have 22kW charging points
This is news to me! I saw on Plugshare that a dealer had 2x chargepoints, but looking at the photo, it looked as though they were 7kW Chargemaster-type things bolted to the wall... Could they be 22kW? Hmmm...
 

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The twin socket wall mounted one we have is 2 x 22kW, then a 7kW in the workshop & a 3kW in the showroom (absolutely no point to this one!). We also have a 2 x 7kW Pod Point as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Morning all,

New question, I am thinking about using an energy provider with cheap electric at night, I did a test with the charging timer and it works well ( sort of, its an hour out, must be on french time ).

If I set the charger to come on at night the battery will be cold, so in winter minus something, will this do any harm to the batteries.

Also, with the new Zoe able to heat its batteries would it do this before before charging or would it be worth setting the pre conditioner first.

Cheers.
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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1) It will not harm the battery (BMS will throttle if needed), but it will be less efficient. How much less efficient is hard to tell. I think on your end the difference between economy and non-economy rates are fairly high, so 99% sure it is worth it.

2) I'd never use the car timer for it. One day it will bite you, i.e. ran away in a hurry on a public only coming back a few hours later to find it hadn't charged. A far better strategy is to make sure your chargepoint can be controlled by a timer. (all IMHO. opinions vary ;))

3) The new ZOE does not heat the battery. Debunked by Renault Austria in writing to the ZOE club. (ZOE fairytale™)
 

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3) The new ZOE does not heat the battery. Debunked by Renault Austria in writing to the ZOE club. (ZOE fairytale™)
Are you sure? Could it be different based on market? How about the official information from Renault describing battery heating?

I've measured a significant temperature increase in below zero temperature when preheating the car from the mains. Using CANZE of course. In minus 10 celsius the temperature in the battery reaches around plus 15 celsius, and then gradualy starts to cool down if not driven (naturaly from the outside cold I guess). Also the Zoe starts to draw power quite a while before the preheating itself kicks in. I cannot phantom why it would do that if it's not warming the battery.
 

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Are you sure? Could it be different based on market? How about the official information from Renault describing battery heating?

I've measured a significant temperature increase in below zero temperature when preheating the car from the mains. Using CANZE of course. In minus 10 celsius the temperature in the battery reaches around plus 15 celsius, and then gradualy starts to cool down if not driven (naturaly from the outside cold I guess). Also the Zoe starts to draw power quite a while before the preheating itself kicks in. I cannot phantom why it would do that if it's not warming the battery.
Any lithium battery will be warmed by any charge or discharge events, so even charging in cold will warm the battery to an extent. I expect that pre-heating will involve some use of mains and some battery, depending on charge point capability.
 

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I remember a thread on here saying the battery is market specific i.e. Norway gets a heated battery, UK does not. Edit yoh-there beat me to it !

I'm still having problems timer charging as the car (TCU)keeps disconnecting.

Nevertheless I would recommend using time charging, better to charge at times of low demand ( google gridwatch)

Set the timer up in the car, then plug in. The little blue light by the cable will double flash constantly to show a delayed charge, also listen for the contactor of your charger to click in.
The double flash is the important thing though
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@AppleKnocke You have a Nordic version. These ZE40's DO have battery heating. The UK models do not. Neither do the ones in my neck of the woods. :)
Hi yoh-there,

Any idea why they would not put it on all Zoe's, the range dip is going to be greater the bigger the battery.
 

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There is no permanent 'range-dip', as soon as you start charging or driving the battery will warm up . Even in winter in UK it is rarely below freezing air temperature, and there is a high thermal mass in the battery so will probably never get really cold unless not used for a period in winter. The winter range reduction is generally associated with other consumers of power: wet tyres, wipers, heating. The Nordic battery heating is due to the extended periods of extreme sub zero winter weather.
 

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There are two issues with cold:
- internal resistance increases. The net effect is less kWh come out of the pack (and more heat is generated inside the pack). It is a serious effect, depending on the chemistry used, next to the additional consumers @FCat53 mentions and not to be sniffed at.
- maximum charging power levels go down dramatically, again depending on chemistry used. In fact there is a rather small optimum temperature band. For the old ZOEs it runs from roughly 15 to 45C (for the old Leafs both numbers alre lower: charges better in cold, but overheats easier). Interestingly, the effect on discharging is far, far less.

Battery heating is awfully hard to implement "right". You would basically need to know when the car is needed again and for how many kWh to do it efficiently. I guess it's therefor only implemented for regions where otherwise it would be more or less impossible to get things going in a practical sense. For the ZOE my advice for fast-charging in winter is to always try to do that immediately after a stiff drive, not "the following morning". Poor man's battery heating :whistle:

Mildly related: there are more changes for the Nordic version AFAIK. One I read is that the windshield heater is much more powerful and connected directly to the 400 volt bus.
 

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Topic changed in the mean time, but for the past year I only charged at 22+kW posts. I can only charge at public stations, no possibility to charge at home nor at work, so I have to rely on public accelerated charging posts in 99% of the cases.

After 1 year and 16k miles, the SOH is 96%, so I'd say no impact.
 
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