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Hi, for my university senior project I'm working with a few other students do find an answer to this question. It is important with the Cleans Cars 2030 amendment to begin energy models ASAP (We’re based in WA state US). To do so, times of charging, length of charging, driving distance, etc... are all useful information to energy providers.

If you have an electric vehicle, filling out this survey for my capstone team and I would be extremely helpful, thank you :)



Note: Any information gathered is only to aid in creating a model for our capstone and will not be shared with anyone else. You will not be spammed.


So far the intro to this project is proving not to disappoint, I had no idea there were high traffic forums (other than Reddit) that posted about this kind of stuff! Although, as a Uni student I cannot afford an EV yet, It’s quite interesting reading through the general discussions and getting a taste of the day in the life - while realizing the vast outlook for help. If this post catches anyone’s eye, I’ll be sure to follow up with general results while not jeopardizing individual privacy. Thank you for your time :)
 

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OK very USA centric as in US only.
Just a word, this is an international forum but mainly European. I hope you get some replies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
OK very USA centric as in US only.
Just a word, this is an international forum but mainly European. I hope you get some replies.
Yeah I saw mostly international discussions from what I’ve read so far, but I don’t believe it would be too big of an issue because we’re mainly looking at times of charging - which I dangerously assume would be relatively universal (with respect to the time zones). However, if data seems skewed, we have access to the day of the each survey submission. From there, we can then roughly identify US vs International responses as we haven’t posted it too much.

Thank you for the reply!
 

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The average daily mileage can be misleading, I work part time, 3 days a week with an 8 mile commute BUT once a fortnight I have a 200 mile journey to visit my elderly mum which is when I top up with a public charger. Early adopters in the UK often have variable time of use tarriffs so charge at night, using timed charging, but these tarriffs are not available to new users, there fore there is no incentive to "smooth" out demand using off peak electricity at the moment in the UK. Personally I plug in when I go to bed, the car does the rest. a few people have work place charging so will AC charge during the day, very occasionally employers provide rapid charging. The demopgraphic here is very different and it is difficult to see how charging can be provided to people in terraced accommodation with no driveway or living in high rise blocks, but good luck with your project, my daughter did a year at uni in Boulder and loved it!
 

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County,? If you want other responses than the us you need country at least and an other for make ;)
 

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I calculated this and there was enough spare electricity generation and distribution capacity to power about 15 million EVs driving the normal average mileage of around 8,000 miles per year. The key is time of use charging, and making sure that most EVs charge during the really big dip in electricity demand overnight. That dip is extremely pronounced and can easily hit around 10 GW of spare and unused capacity every night, as shown on this website: GB Fuel type power generation production

This means that if we manage EV charging properly then we don't need to do anything at all to the grid for several years, as it's going to take a fair time for EVs to hit the sort of numbers where they are likely to have a significant impact on the grid. Not sure how many cars we have on the road , but at a guess I doubt that it's more than about 30 million.
 

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And for the UK the National Grid has done the work for you. Checkout Future Scenarios on the National Grid’s web site. The UK problem is the new relationship of generation location to consumption. Not too many charging points on Dogger Bank!
 

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I calculated this and there was enough spare electricity generation and distribution capacity to power about 15 million EVs driving the normal average mileage of around 8,000 miles per year. The key is time of use charging, and making sure that most EVs charge during the really big dip in electricity demand overnight. That dip is extremely pronounced and can easily hit around 10 GW of spare and unused capacity every night, as shown on this website: GB Fuel type power generation production

This means that if we manage EV charging properly then we don't need to do anything at all to the grid for several years, as it's going to take a fair time for EVs to hit the sort of numbers where they are likely to have a significant impact on the grid. Not sure how many cars we have on the road , but at a guess I doubt that it's more than about 30 million.
Very interesting link thanks. So less than 50% of UK electricity is carbon neutral, makes me feel proud of France with her 97% carbon neutral but and it is a big but as we are so much nuclear we have just pushed another problem further down the road…….still at least we have not got such a big jump to make to cut carbon emissions.
Also surprised to see how little supply was coming through IC1 but I assume that is due to the recent fire damage.
I totally take the point re the use of supply at night but my new tariff not only gives me cheap rate all weekend but also 1 working day a week and I was free to choose from Monday, Weds or Friday. I went for weds and now I tend to not only charge the car in the day but also use the washing machine and tumble dryer if needed as well whereas before I would use them overnight so my usage pattern has shifted substantially to daytime use. Am wondering if they will change back in the future if it all starts putting too much demand on our grid.
To anyone who is interested there is an app called ecomix which shows the details of french electricity consumption, production co2 emissions and market price and import exports. We are currently importing 989mw from the UK as I type but exporting nearly 5000mw to Italy. The graph indicates the import from the UK will change to an export this evening. Tres tres complique…..
 

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The UK National Grid Balancing summary website https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=eds/main clearly shows the overnight dip in consumption which is available for charging electric cars simply by running through the night the generating capacity that is running all day.
As I already have cheap overnight electricity (for off-peak heating) I do as much car charging as possible at home at night, which (for my 24kWh Leaf) amounts to 80% of my total charging (an additional 5% is done at home during daytime, 12% using public en-route (Rapid) charging points, and 3% using public destination charging points).
 

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The UK National Grid Balancing summary website Electricity Data Summary | BMRS clearly shows the overnight dip in consumption which is available for charging electric cars simply by running through the night the generating capacity that is running all day.
As I already have cheap overnight electricity (for off-peak heating) I do as much car charging as possible at home at night, which (for my 24kWh Leaf) amounts to 80% of my total charging (an additional 5% is done at home during daytime, 12% using public en-route (Rapid) charging points, and 3% using public destination charging points).

The night before last saw us use the most off-peak electricity we've ever used. Both cars were charging, the hot water thermal battery was was charging and the battery pack was charging. Added to the small base load we peaked at around 90 A for a short time. I've since wound down the battery maximum charge rate, as it didn't need to be at the maximum, given there's 7 hours to charge the thing. That should give enough headroom for when we start having to turn the heating on when the cold weather arrives this winter.
 

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The UK National Grid Balancing summary website https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=eds/main clearly shows the overnight dip in consumption which is available for charging electric cars simply by running through the night the generating capacity that is running all day.
As I already have cheap overnight electricity (for off-peak heating) I do as much car charging as possible at home at night, which (for my 24kWh Leaf) amounts to 80% of my total charging (an additional 5% is done at home during daytime, 12% using public en-route (Rapid) charging points, and 3% using public destination charging points).
Oh dear! So much of the generation during the day is gas powered CCGT. Do we really want to increase our CO2 with more CCGT running at night?
Interesting times ahead to see if cheap rate stays relatively cheap and investment in domestic battery storage remains worth it.
Hope that as we have more renewables and less gas powered CCGT that increased electrical surplus during the night hours from more intermittency will more than offset increased time shifted demand and EV battery charging and keep the cheap rate worth having and using. Snag will be if the surplus get mopped up by green hydrogen generation that holds the cheap rate price up with stronger demand.

I am beginning to wonder if the new MG 73 kWh with V2L 2.2 kW would be a good buy to tether to the house. Friends heat a modern well insulated apartment with a heat pump for £70 a month and 17p per unit. Their renewal is going to be at 34 p a unit. Scope for off-peak storage.
 

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The UK National Grid Balancing summary website https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=eds/main clearly shows the overnight dip in consumption which is available for charging electric cars simply by running through the night the generating capacity that is running all day.
The dip in consumption is matched by a dip in CCGT generation, so the solution of using this capacity during the night just increases the overall use of fossil fuels in the generation mix. The reason for this is that, to parody the advertising phrase, gas generation is turn off and onable. What is required is an increase in low carbon generation, even if it isn't controllable (e.g. nuclear) and then match the excess generation with charging demand.
 

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I am beginning to wonder if the new MG 73 kWh with V2L 2.2 kW would be a good buy to tether to the house.
How much for the kit to tether it? More or less than the cost of a static battery that could power the house even when the car is out?
 

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The dip in consumption is matched by a dip in CCGT generation, so the solution of using this capacity during the night just increases the overall use of fossil fuels in the generation mix. The reason for this is that, to parody the advertising phrase, gas generation is turn off and onable. What is required is an increase in low carbon generation, even if it isn't controllable (e.g. nuclear) and then match the excess generation with charging demand.
Agreed, but the point was to address the fact that "the grid can cope" - which it can.
 

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Another factor to bear in mind is that the grid has a surfeit of electricity distribution capacity, in general, and it's been generating capacity that has been reducing, mainly from the closure of older power stations that haven't been replaced.

Demand has been falling steadily for the past decade or so, yet none of the distribution infrastructure has been downsized. For example, this is the amount of electricity generated and distributed per year in my lifetime (until last year). Note the pretty big drop since around 2005, of roughly 100 GWh per year:

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Parallel
 

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This is interesting. The onward march of LEDs, I guess. It's true that France has much higher electricity demand than the UK, for example, despite similar population. I suppose they have more electric heating.
 

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This is interesting. The onward march of LEDs, I guess. It's true that France has much higher electricity demand than the UK, for example, despite similar population. I suppose they have more electric heating.
As well as France having heavy industry like Aluminium smelting. When you have cheap, reliable electricity then industry tends to grow around it.
 

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As well as France having heavy industry like Aluminium smelting. When you have cheap, reliable electricity then industry tends to grow around it.

Very true, Kinlochleven and aluminium smelting springs to mind. There's no aluminium ore anywhere near Kinlochleven AFAIK, but there was cheap hydro electricity.
 

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Very true, Kinlochleven and aluminium smelting springs to mind. There's no aluminium ore anywhere near Kinlochleven AFAIK, but there was cheap hydro electricity.
Similarly UK has had aluminium smelters next to coal and nuclear powerstations, both now closed to my knowledge.
 
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