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Years ago I remember a chat about trackers becoming more open to easy attacks as they became more mainstream in cars because it is extremely easy to just block the GPS signal and GPS blockers were easy to get hold of even then and no bigger than a phone. As soon as the local GPS reception is blocked then the tracker does not know where the car is so can not transmit the cars position.

The older trackers that had a radio transmitter that was unique to the type of tracker were more secure just because they are very much harder to disable as all they do is transmit a signal. The big problem was that the older trackers relied on law enforcement cars being fitted with the right receiver system to track the car when they got within range of the tracker transmitter so not as easy to use but more resistant to being blocked.

I saw a youtube video recently where a bloke had a snow blower stolen and he used the tracker to locate where the thieves had taken it but when he got there all he found was the battery from the snowblower by the side of the road with the tracker still connected to it. The thieves were canny enough to know not to disconnect the battery from the tracker in case it set off an alarm so had just left that connected and cut the other wires to remove the battery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Got it back again. Met texted him the location and said they hadn鈥檛 got time to investigate apparently.
3000A73A-F978-48B7-9E53-8FBDB6517609.jpeg
 

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Met texted him the location and said they hadn鈥檛 got time to investigate apparently.
He should let the dealer investigate it, the car is obviously defective if it's that easy to nick and disable the tracker without damaging it 馃

Bet I know what they'll say...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
He should let the dealer investigate it, the car is obviously defective if it's that easy to nick and disable the tracker without damaging it 馃

Bet I know what they'll say...
I鈥檝e suggested he gets Frankel at The Times to call Jag鈥檚 Press Office and make a fuss.
 

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I鈥檝e suggested he gets Frankel at The Times to call Jag鈥檚 Press Office and make a fuss.
To be honest, he could probably get them under the sale of goods and services act - goods must be fit for purpose, etc. As could most people who have cars with keyless entry.
 

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He should let the dealer investigate it, the car is obviously defective if it's that easy to nick and disable the tracker without damaging it 馃

Bet I know what they'll say...

As I said above any tracker that uses GPS is easy to jam with a small box and these jammers are used a lot by theives and it doesn't matter what the car is if it uses GPS for tracking then it can just be jammed when it is stolen. As soon as the theives move their jammer away from the car the tracker starts working again which is probably why the car was found.

The bigger question is how the theives managed to start the car and defeat whatever the security system is they use as that would be the thing that would worry me rather than having the tracker GPS jammed.
 

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As I said above any tracker that uses GPS is easy to jam with a small box and these jammers are used a lot by theives and it doesn't matter what the car is if it uses GPS for tracking then it can just be jammed when it is stolen. As soon as the theives move their jammer away from the car the tracker starts working again which is probably why the car was found.

The bigger question is how the theives managed to start the car and defeat whatever the security system is they use as that would be the thing that would worry me rather than having the tracker GPS jammed.
A strategic piece of tin foil defeats a GPS system but that's completely irrelevant - Jaguar sell it as a security feature, so it must work with a reasonable level of robustness. As should the locking system, the alarm and the immobiliser...
 

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A strategic piece of tin foil defeats a GPS system but that's completely irrelevant - Jaguar sell it as a security feature, so it must work with a reasonable level of robustness. As should the locking system, the alarm and the immobiliser...
Jaguar aren't responsible for the various satellite positioning systems that are available, the frequencies they use, or the availability of extremely illegal RF jamming equipment.

They could certainly do more to improve their lock security though.
 

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It will be the usual relay attack to get in. Then you can get at the obd port. Plug in GPS jammers are easy to get.

Tesla PIN to drive type security would knacker a lot of these thieves. But it might lead to owners being threatened for the PIN?
 

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Jaguar aren't responsible for the various satellite positioning systems that are available, the frequencies they use, or the availability of extremely illegal RF jamming equipment.

They could certainly do more to improve their lock security though.
No, but they are responsible for building a security feature that is fit for purpose, and any design choices they made while building it (such as using GPS). If I built a car out of butter, I'd be my fault that it melts on a hot day and dissolves when wet. I can't blame the creamery for my stupid decision.
 

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No, but they are responsible for building a security feature that is fit for purpose, and any design choices they made while building it (such as using GPS). If I built a car out of butter, I'd be my fault that it melts on a hot day and dissolves when wet. I can't blame the creamery for my stupid decision.
What alternative geo location method do you suggest? Inertial navigation? Celestial navigation? RF beacons?
 

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This is not just a Jaguar problem it is every car that uses GPS tracking which is just about every car that is currently being sold including all Teslas. For as long as tracking systems rely on using GPS then they are all very vulnerable to being jammed like this and have been for years this is nothing at all new. When I was working in the USA and driving a Tesla my wife liked being able to keep track of where I was by checking the Tesla app and tracker but that could just as easily be jammed by a thief.

As already said earlier there are aftermarket tracking systems that do not use GPS but have a hidden transmitter but they require law enforcement cars to be fitted with directional receivers and as GPS has become a standard fit to cars I believe that these aftermarket tracking systems are becoming less popular.
 

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Not touting it as a security feature. Call it what it is - a convenience at best.
No security solution is completely undefeatable. Watch the Lock Picking Lawyer on YouTube and then question why you even bother having conventional locks when a particularly skilled and experienced person could bypass it in less than 2 minutes.

Then replace all your conventional locks with something app enabled and realise that it can be hacked easily.
 

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No security solution is completely undefeatable. Watch the Lock Picking Lawyer on YouTube and then question why you even bother having conventional locks when a particularly skilled and experienced person could bypass it in less than 2 minutes.
And no security solution should be defeatable with a piece of tin foil. That requires zero skill. Remember when you could pop open a Kryptonite bike lock with a ball pen in a couple of seconds? It's that kind of stupid in my head.
 

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What I want to know about this theft is how the thieves defeated the key fob as now that all manufacturers have managed to come up with a counter to the older relay attack boxes that worked with older fobs this theft was either by thieves that had found a way to hack the fob or may be they stole the fob. We had a warning a few years ago that theives were breaking in to houses just to steal key fobs so may be that is what happened here. A bloke I used to work with was crazy about car security and always kept his keys and fob locked away in a safe built in to the slab of his home.

With the price of some of the parts of cars being so expensive now there is a lucrative market in stealing them and quickly shipping them to somewhere like Latvia. I have noticed that there are large quantities of used Tesla parts for sale from Latvia on eBay far more than would be expected from such a small country.
 

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And no security solution should be defeatable with a piece of tin foil. That requires zero skill. Remember when you could pop open a Kryptonite bike lock with a ball pen in a couple of seconds? It's that kind of stupid in my head.

Where is the information that the defeat method used was tinfoil? The jammers used by theives are little transmitters than just block GPS reception for a few metres around the jammer and are pretty much foolproof from what I have heard and will disable any cars GPS tracking system no matter what make it is.
 
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