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It exists all ready and there are too many appis accessing it as a result. We just need one app, like Zapmap for example.
So shut down ABRP and the rest? That may make some people rather unhappy.

In general, I鈥檓 not convinced that cosy monopolies end well. Would we choose to go back to BT being the monopoly provider of telephone and broadband services, for example? Why should end users not have a choice? And why should new entrants be disbarred?
 

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Forgive the polemic, but I鈥檝e had the creeping realisation that many others have surely worked out, namely that the UK charging infrastructure is currently not far off a shambles. And it really needs to change quickly given the exponential growth which EVs are about to see.

Big issues for me....

  • profligacy of apps. I鈥檓 fed up of having to set up an app/account with every single charger I go to. Swarco鈥檚 appalling 鈥榞ive me all your bank details before you can charge鈥 is a case in point
  • lack of clarity of price at the point of charge
  • lack of live information about which chargers are actually available. Technically this would be very easy to achieve
  • shocking unreliability of chargers. I鈥檇 say I hit no more than 50% success rate without some form of intervention
  • multiple standards. E.g. Tesla type 2 which don鈥檛 support type 2, Gridserve replacing CCS/Chademo units with CCS only
  • lack of chargers. The half-term has shown what is around the corner. Big surge in leisure users and hardly a charging station free anywhere over the weekend
  • no proper tax records from providers making business tax claims very difficult
  • and swathes of the nation almost entirely lacking in chargers. E.g. Mid Wales, Cornwall

So, my question - if you were running things, how would you sort out this chaos?
I'd like to see contactless payment being the standard with optional apps and RFID cards for those that want to save up points for plastic wine glasses etc :LOL:
 

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Other than supermarkets with free chargers the public charging network in this country seems unuseable to me unless you have a Tesla.

If I didn't have a home charger I wouldn't buy an EV currently. We will have to keep our big ice for long journeys, holidays, towing etc for the foreseeable future. It will be years before there is a realistically priced large vehicle that has a real world range on 350 - 400 miles that can replace it.
 

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So shut down ABRP and the rest? That may make some people rather unhappy.

In general, I鈥檓 not convinced that cosy monopolies end well. Would we choose to go back to BT being the monopoly provider of telephone and broadband services, for example? Why should end users not have a choice? And why should new entrants be disbarred?
Charge Place Scotland is a good example which the rest of the UK would do well to emulate. Except that there is no compulsion for charge point owners to sign up - that needs to change.


As Scrooge says, contactless payment should be available at every charger (for if the comms fail)
 

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This is just a small selection of crap that I have to take with me when out for new journeys. Charging apps are numerous, but what about parking apps? every town seems to have their own variety.

View attachment 145749
My phone looks very similar, and what all the different parking companies and apps tell me is that the problem isn鈥檛 unique to EV charging.

I think it鈥檚 just the result of the type of governance this country has had for the past 10 years or so, which just so happened to coincide with technological revolution in these (and other) areas. Some might argue that light touch government (or possibly just being distracted by other pursuits) has helped these revolutions along鈥.others that there has been far too little intervention with the aim of making life easier for actual users, and so here we are.
 

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This is just a small selection of crap that I have to take with me when out for new journeys. Charging apps are numerous, but what about parking apps? every town seems to have their own variety.

View attachment 145749
The way things are going our entire lives will be run from an Amazon datacenter...
 

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I like this bit...

Why? Because charging electric vehicles is going to become much more straightforward than refuelling petrol and diesel cars.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

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I really dont mind apps, I just have a folder of them on my phone, rock up and use whatever app i need to charge. I really dont see the problem. If you have an EV and dont have a smartphone then take a long hard look at your priorities.
 

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I really dont mind apps, I just have a folder of them on my phone, rock up and use whatever app i need to charge. I really dont see the problem. If you have an EV and dont have a smartphone then take a long hard look at your priorities.
But what if you loose your phone, battery is flat, broken or change your phone/contract and takes a bit of time to get back and running resulting in being unable to public charge... Being dependent on an expensive fragile mobile device is madness.

I really don't get this culture of phones and apps with a username and password for everything in life...

All we need is contactless, nothing else, not even coin operated rapids, lol.
 

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But what if you loose your phone, battery is flat, broken or change your phone/contract and takes a bit of time to get back and running resulting in being unable to public charge... Being dependent on an expensive fragile mobile device is madness.

I really don't get this culture of phones and apps with a username and password for everything in life...

All we need is contactless, nothing else, not even coin operated rapids, lol.
It鈥檚 literally never happened in 5 years of driving EVs I don鈥檛 even carry a wallet anymore, Apple Pay is more than sufficient and that works on rapids too
 

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Forgive the polemic, but I鈥檝e had the creeping realisation that many others have surely worked out.....
Yup ... in 2013.

Nothing's changed, but for a few more chargers, all the same issues.

Sorry, not reading the thread.

This same topic and same issues will come up every single time a new BEV owner has to figure out what it takes to make their new car actually do what they want it to do.

I think there was a peak of 'usefulness' of the charging infrastructure around 2018. It was mostly working, the usage was still low enough to find them rarely used. Now the numbers of chargers is going up but not fast enough for the target usage. Finding a working charger has gone from a hobby of the middle-aged who don't have to worry too much about turning up late for work because they are the ones in charge, to the hoi polloi who (rightly) demand working and available systems from the get go.

We were the Guinea pigs and tried our best to offer the feedback to make it all work nicely. We did so happily with a view to making it better. It did not get better. I am back to an ICE for the foreseeable future.

Good luck, all ye who venture forth, far from your home chargers.
 

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It鈥檚 literally never happened in 5 years of driving EVs I don鈥檛 even carry a wallet anymore, Apple Pay is more than sufficient and that works on rapids too
if you lived in an area with poor coverage, such as large areas of the HIghlands, you might wish for contactless payment.

In many areas there is only one network. For example. when I lived in Tarbert Argyll, the signal was poor (no 4g) and I had to have two sims in the phone - EE & O2 and often when I was out and about in my camper, neither had a signal.

I'm sure things have improved, but even now many Highland chargers have no network connection so are on 'free vend'.

Ye spoilt sassenachs don't know you;re born!
 

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I have a theory that charging is not going to become profitable in most circumstances. AC chargepoints don't add enough value to be priced at much above the cost of the electricity - we see claims the 30p/kW 7kW points just don't get used and that makes sense to me. DC chargers are very expensive to buy, install and maintain and the added value of charge speed means the price per kW can be justifiably higher, but probably not so high as to really be profitable.

I suspect we'll see a lot of charging run as public service, not for profit or as a side to the actual profitable business of cafe, supermarket, whatever. We might see increased auto manufacturer involvement, after all they need to sell the cars... This isn't to seek profit from the charging, it's a means to resolve customer resistance to buying the cars and is exactly what Tesla have done after all.

I don't have figures to hand, but a friend who's family used to run an independent fuel station forecourt told me that essentially they didn't make anything from the fuel once the regulatory maintenance was taken into account. Their profit came from the shop, where they could charge more because of a semi-captive audience. I don't see why this would be any different for charge point providers.
 

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Personally I think a combination of government funding for equipment in more sparsely populated areas is necessary. I also think we need legislation that requires operators to maintain the service with real penalties if they fail. This approach ought to work for the likes of the Conservative party, who believe market is best but support targeted subsidy where necessary.

I think the need for apps has to end. I don't mind using an rfid card where contactless payment isn't possible/appropriate, but don't make me need the internet.
 

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The thing that is always ignored whenever this subject is raised ( yet again) is that Tesla solved this problem 10 years ago. They realised that all that a driver wanted was to plug the car in; get filled up, and receive a debit on their selected card at some time in the future. But then again, Tesla also solved the chicken/egg problem over chargers by installing thousands before they sold cars. That simple act created the demand for their cars, and then the plug n go charging system sent sales soaring. Followed by an in house system of checking the availability of chargers en route they have nailed this issue.

Eventually, this will become the way that other cars and charge companies operate but meanwhile we must endure acres of text casting around for workarounds to overcome the disaster that we see. The best of a bad lot is to absolutely insist on contactless access and payment. Everyone that condones the exponential growth of flaky apps and club membership schemes is just prolonging the agony.
 

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Posts about public charging range from 鈥榠t was great鈥 to 鈥檌t was terrible鈥.

The truth will be somewhere in between of course, and your actual experience will depend on your car and where you鈥檙e trying to charge.

It鈥榮 unrealistic to expect an infinite array of public charging to stretch out before you whilst the numbers of EVs out on the roads is still a very small percentage of road traffic.

I wasn鈥檛 an early adopter by the standards of some on here, but I鈥檝e been poking about in something electric since 2014, and the infrastructure is massively better than it was then.

I expect it will get better again over the next few years, but there will always be times when the infrastructure is lagging a little and some patience/forbearance will need to be shown.
 

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The thing that is always ignored whenever this subject is raised ( yet again) is that Tesla solved this problem 10 years ago. They realised that all that a driver wanted was to plug the car in; get filled up, and receive a debit on their selected card at some time in the future.
I was going to comment earlier that in some ways Tesla acted how government should ideally have acted (and they basically did so because Government wouldn鈥檛/couldnt). Ok, not in actually manufacturing a state-issued car, but in creating the 'eco-system' for easy, fast charging.

Although I sort of suspect that if government had done it, even if it were just as good, lots of people would not be happy鈥 just because government had done it rather than private enterprise.

Just to add, this is effectively what happened in The Netherlands - government intervened early on and created (or at least created the conditions for) a brand agnostic eco-system which is almost as good Tesla鈥檚 (FastNed).
 
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