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Discussion Starter #1
The mother in law is looking to replace her old Volvo. Budget around £17k - preferably 1 yr old.

Can't convince her to go fully electric...but she has been looking at the Toyota Auris...including the Hybrid.

I know it's a bit meh, but it's a step in the right direction. The Prius seems to be a bit more, but is it a better car or are they much the same? She's a careful driver and tends to do <20 mile journeys with hardly any motorway driving so should get decent mpg.

Sorry to be talking hybrid, rather than bev, phev or erev but wonder if anyone had any comments, alternatives etc.
 

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2020 Hyundai Ioniq Electric (38.3 kWh) Premium SE in Iron Grey with Shale Grey Interior option
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Lexus ct200h.

much better looking and finished. Might struggle for a 1yr old but definitely worth a look.

to be fair, all three use the same engine and hybrid synergy drive set up so its really down to personal preference. I just don't like the Auris much. Father in law bought one and manages 52mpg, but he only knows one position for the throttle most of the time.

good luck and get her to drive them all. Only way to be sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thx. Did read reviews on that but they (like the Auris reviews) are very lukewarm and I doubt I could persuade them to splash the extra cash for a luxury Toyota.

Will see though.....
 

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Lexus ct200h.
I've got a friend with one of those who bought it new in 2011. Whilst he's very happy with the car in general he's disappointed in the economy and has even spoken to Toyota/Lexus about it. He's no boy racer, in his mid-60's so I don't think it's his driving style.

Here are the stats that he's been keeping on the economy : http://www.fuelly.com/car/lexus/ct200h/2011/Goggy/109985

I can put you in touch if you'd like more info about the car.
 

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2020 Hyundai Ioniq Electric (38.3 kWh) Premium SE in Iron Grey with Shale Grey Interior option
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Looking on Autotrader there are a few alternatives within the budget.

14 Plate 2800 mile Honda Jazz for £16,989





Depending on their needs, an alternative might be the CR-Z? 13 Plate with 5,000 miles for £15k. At least a little more interesting.


The other Honda is the Insight. 14 plate with 25 miles for £16,999





Otherwise the options a larger cars or french. With one exception that popped up.

2012 Infiniti M 3.5h for £19k







Certainly fully loaded!!

Otherwise its Peugeot 3008 (63 plat ex demo for £16995)


Or the Peugeot 508 in Esttate or saloon






And lastly the Citroen DS5 (which I really like the styling of)


Choosing a new car can be such fun!!

Derek
 
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Folks, feel free to dispute this, but I cannot help but feel the physics of hybrid cars (not the plug in ones) just does not hold up. The energy to charge the batteries comes from the petrol (or potential energy used in braking, which also came from the petrol), hence all you are doing is using the petrol in two ways, in the ICE or to charge the batteries.
So the more efficient ICE (assuming the manufacturers aim for efficiency in hybrids), is hindered by the extra weight of the batteries and electic motors and a slightly more complex gearing. Also meaning more complex servicing, and engine management.
So the fuel usage will be worse than having just a fuel efficicent ICE.
Hence I cannot see the logical reason why a hybrid is more fuel effecicient, or better for the environment, than a car with the same engine, but without the battery and electric motor - is it just to enable people to "feel" better about their cars? I tried an Auris and Lexus CT200h on test drives and could not get anything other than a good ICE car's level of fuel efficency and the numbers posted above agree.
A PHEV is at least a step forward, where a pure hybrid, seems to be a step backwards!

So are pure hybrids a bit of a con?
 

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If they drive off the battery at low speed / local area that's better for local air quality (usually higher density locations) and the fuel figures seem to show they do work for efficiency.


Agree they're no plugin, but I hope they take some fear out of electric motoring?
 

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Not really, in my 3rd gen Prius (before modifying to a plugin) the best tank I got was 73mpg, driving to holiday in Devon and round about up and down the hills, filled with camping gear. The worst, in the dead of winter, was 55mpg.

It depends a lot on how you drive it, but if you're a hard driver you want get good economy in any vehicle.

For the Toyota hybrid system in particular it does a lot to -make- the iceore efficient, by running it under load, holding it at certain rpms, or simply switching it off when not needed. The moment you lift off it will cut fuelling completely (not even idling) and once you drop below 46mph the engine completely stops, so it's far superior to other stop start systems.
 

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There are three reasons why a hybrid such as the Prius can be much better than a straight ICE. The engine is a pseudo Miller cycle which is more efficient than the normal Otto cycle. The Miller cycle is not usable by itself as it has poor torque at low speeds and a poor power to weight ratio. But the battery buffer can compensate for these deficiencies. Secondly the electrical effective CVT means that the engine can stay most of the time in it's most efficient speed range. And thirdly the battery buffer means a smaller engine can be used while still providing power for acceleration and hill climbing. A normal ICE has to be (grossly) overpowered to do this and so operates much of the time way below optimum power.

My Prius managed 57.4 mpg over the long term, way above anything I achieved in previous cars.
 

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The mother in law is looking to replace her old Volvo. Budget around £17k - preferably 1 yr old.

Can't convince her to go fully electric...but she has been looking at the Toyota Auris...including the Hybrid.

I know it's a bit meh, but it's a step in the right direction. The Prius seems to be a bit more, but is it a better car or are they much the same? She's a careful driver and tends to do <20 mile journeys with hardly any motorway driving so should get decent mpg.

Sorry to be talking hybrid, rather than bev, phev or erev but wonder if anyone had any comments, alternatives etc.
Would she consider a smaller car? A Yaris Hybrid is about that price - if she's worried about space inside she might be surprised how roomy it is (I used to quite easily fit my 3 kids in the back, and they're 17/15/11, so not exactly tiny!)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It's more the boot space she'd miss. I assume all hybrids are automatic?
 

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I know you said that your mother in law does not want to go electric but given here mileage it seems a BEV would be ideal for her. A less than year old Leaf Tekna would be well within her budget and an Acenta even less.
Perhaps if she test drove one she may reconsider?
 

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Can't convince her to go fully electric...
Out of interest, why? I still can't quite get my head around people who seem perfect fits for BEVs just ruling them out? Most of them I've encountered don't even know how a traditional engine works, so it cant be a genuine fear of the "unknown" in those cases.
 

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It's more the boot space she'd miss. I assume all hybrids are automatic?
Boot space isn't too shabby in the Yaris, but I can see the point.

Yes, all Hybrids are autos.

What about the Ampera?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I hear ya guys! Boy have I tried...

I have offered to take them for a spin to try and convince them but I'm not getting any signals that they'd consider plugging in. I think a Zoe or Leaf would be ideal for her needs...but I'm pushing water up hill. The Ampera is out for the occasional times she has 3 passengers in the back.

Have sent them links to a 508 and DS5 to consider.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Seeing them tomorrow so will continue 'the debate' ;)
 

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Boot space isn't too shabby in the Yaris, but I can see the point.

Yes, all Hybrids are autos.

What about the Ampera?
There are some manuals, like the gen 1 insight, the honda civic, the CRZ, but most are autos.
 
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