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Land Rover has confirmed that it is developing hydrogen fuel cell technology with the new Defender.

Hydrogen-powered Defenders could be just around the corner, if Land Rover’s imminent prototype is anything to go by. JLR is announcing today that a Defender development mule with hydrogen fuel cells will be tested on the road this year.

Named Project ZEUS, the hydrogen drivetrain is a part of JLR’s Reimagine strategy, which sets the company towards a target of achieving zero tailpipe emissions across its fleet by 2036. It was back in February that JLR announced that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCEVs) were part of the plan, but this is the first time they have confirmed that a Defender FCEV could be on cards.

The prototype Defender FCEV will begin testing in the UK towards the end of 2021.
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I see this as not all use cases being covered by BEV combined with a high likelihood that many countries won't allow the sale of ICE fossil vehicles. Yes, infrastructure isn't there and yes, cost will be high (compared to BEV) but where a 3.5T trailer needs to be pulled or people want to take a caravan to the south of france, this will be the type of solution required.
It will be on the road as part of this project to test, but definitely not to buy!
 

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When people talk about hydrogen powered vehicles aimed at the general public I feel like they never seem to realise that there is for all practical purposes zero infrastructure in place to support these vehicles - I know anti-EV (And indeed EV owners!) criticise the EV infrastructure but there is a fundamental difference... there are power cables literally everywhere, you can put a new charger almost anywhere for EVs.

I see the benefit for hydrogen powered commercial vehicles but pushing hydrogen cars for the general public faces a row of mountains to climb before getting to it being viable.
 

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How are they ever going to sell any of these to farmers when they would have to drive hundreds of miles to fuel it. A Tesla Cybertruck would probably be a far better proposition, especially if they get around to making a European road sized version which could recharge on the farm. Probably the same goes for anyone who wants to tow anything.
 

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Video somewhere in EV News Rides Again somewhere of eTron, EQC & something else ?iPace? towing caravans in Europe to see how viable it was. Bottom line was miles/kWh halved, and the eTron did well thx to very fast Rapid Charging capability.
So something with super-quick charging & say 300 mile usual range is going to be fine towing a caravan. You'll just have to refill at similar range intervals as most of the rest of us, and you'll have the advantage of your own loo & coffee facilities as you do so, so no real hardship tbh!

I have memories of dad having to pull over 1/2 way up Brenner pass to let the overheated Standard Vanguard blow off steam for 1/2 an hour when towing a caravan + family of 6 up it...
 
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I see this as not all use cases being covered by BEV combined with a high likelihood that many countries won't allow the sale of ICE fossil vehicles. Yes, infrastructure isn't there and yes, cost will be high (compared to BEV) but where a 3.5T trailer needs to be pulled or people want to take a caravan to the south of france, this will be the type of solution required.
It will be on the road as part of this project to test, but definitely not to buy!
I agree with all that you say apart from the assumption that people should be allowed to continue to do such things as
where a 3.5T trailer needs to be pulled or people want to take a caravan to the south of france,
- people need to realise that such activities are not sustainable over long distances and alternatives exist such as motorhomes based on LCV chassis for touring or the sharing economy with lets such as AirBnB for longer stays.
 

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I agree with all that you say apart from the assumption that people should be allowed to continue to do such things as - people need to realise that such activities are not sustainable over long distances and alternatives exist such as motorhomes based on LCV chassis for touring or the sharing economy with lets such as AirBnB for longer stays.
Agree for private use, but the automotive market is wider than just private passenger vehicles. Light commercial needs a place (which may involve towing a boat/digger/other plant to a remote location). Mining is happening in remote locations to find resources for our EVs. It may not be practical to power this heavy equipment with BEV and the infrastructure almost certainly doesn't exists. There may be a use case for a hydrogen hub powering a remote construction or mining location? I think we've been spoilt with fossil fuels - ICE works for most use cases. Heading towards net zero needs more than a single solution.
 

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Heading towards net zero needs more than a single solution.
No doubt ICE for extreme usage and other polluting devices will remain part of the mix possibly offset in some way - I can't see climate scientists giving up their rocket launched satellites any time soon.

Journal of Cleaner Production
 

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Agree for private use, but the automotive market is wider than just private passenger vehicles. Light commercial needs a place (which may involve towing a boat/digger/other plant to a remote location). Mining is happening in remote locations to find resources for our EVs. It may not be practical to power this heavy equipment with BEV and the infrastructure almost certainly doesn't exists. There may be a use case for a hydrogen hub powering a remote construction or mining location? I think we've been spoilt with fossil fuels - ICE works for most use cases. Heading towards net zero needs more than a single solution.
There is, it's a fuel cell power site power system. These exist now in the form of a shipping container. Put hydrogen in one end, get electricity and water out the other. Use that to power your site and charge the vehicles. It will probably be more efficient than a fuel cell on a vehicle because it doesn't have the same space constraints.
 

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great for the limited number of people who live near somewhere they can refuel!
BIt like when I was driving LPG and initially was fine because I lived near 3 stations (twickenham area), when I moved, was pointless because I couldnt refuel without a 20 mile round trip!


The full list of hydrogen refuelling stations in the UK
  1. Shell, Gatwick (RH6 0NX) - Operated by: ITM Power
  2. Shell, M25 Cobham Services, Surrey (KT11 3JS) - Operated by: ITM Power
  3. Power CEME Innovation Centre, Marsh Way, Rainham (RM13 8EU) - Operated by: ITM Power
  4. NPL, Teddington (TW11 0LY) - Operated by: ITM Power
  5. Hatton Cross Station, London (TW6 2GE) - Operated by: Air Products
  6. Shell, M40 Beaconsfield Services, Buckinghamshire (HP9 2SE) - Operated by: ITM Power
  7. Honda Manufacturing, Swindon (SN3 4TZ) - Operated by: BOC
  8. J Matthey, Great Western Way, Swindon (SN5 8AT) - Operated by: ITM Power
  9. AMP, Rotherham, Sheffield (S60 5WG) - Operated by: ITM Power
  10. Aberdeen Hydrogen Centre, Langdykes Road, City of Aberdeen (AB12 3FT) - Operated by: Aberdeen City Council
  11. Hydrogen Refuelling, Powis Terrace, City of Aberdeen (AB25 3RF) - Operated by: BOC
Planned hydrogen refuelling stations:
  1. A50/A38 services, Willington, Derby (DE65 6DX) - Operated by: ITM Power
  2. Cavendish House Prince’s Wharf, Thornaby, Stockton-on-Tees (TS17 6QY) - Operated by: TBC
 

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But it's chicken and egg same as EV's.

Hydrogen cars won't come till the stations are there, and the stations won't come unless there are cars and thus demand.

Solution is simple - force every petrol station in the UK to have 1 hydrogen pump for every 10 petrol / diesel pumps.

I read once that to install a viable Hydrogen refuelling structure in the UK would cost the same as 1.2 days of the second Iraq war.........

But it won't happen because no Government can see past the next election! Same reason the EV Highway has been so badly managed....
 

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I agree with all that you say apart from the assumption that people should be allowed to continue to do such things as - people need to realise that such activities are not sustainable over long distances and alternatives exist such as motorhomes based on LCV chassis for touring or the sharing economy with lets such as AirBnB for longer stays.
Why isn't it? It's far more environmentally damaging to build a huge fossil fuelled motorhome than to build a small light caravan.

I can see new caravans being more aerodynamic than currently (currently people won't trade interior space for aerodynamics as they can't see it on an ICE car) but if they are towing with an EV it will become an issue. However charging points need a rethink - how will you charge a car towing a caravan? They won't fit well into many charging bays with the caravan attached, and I wouldn't want to leave a caravan unattended in a Motorway services whilst I charge my car......

In the Caravan parking, they need at least 1 charger, set to be fine to run the cable to all 4 corners of the tow vehicle.....
 

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But it's chicken and egg same as EV's.

Hydrogen cars won't come till the stations are there, and the stations won't come unless there are cars and thus demand.
Not the same dilemma as an EV because without Hydrogen fuelling stations a Hydrogen car can't be driven at all.

With no public charging infrastructure EV's could still be driven locally from home charging. So EV's had a bootstrapping advantage that Hydrogen cars simply don't have.

That, and Hydrogen fuelled cars have to compete with already existing EV's and EV charging infrastructure which already has a significant foothold - as spotty as it may be in places.
 

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No doubt ICE for extreme usage and other polluting devices will remain part of the mix possibly offset in some way - I can't see climate scientists giving up their rocket launched satellites any time soon.

Journal of Cleaner Production
You'll know that all range anxiety issues have been solved and time is up for ICE when the Challenger 3 is rolled out in an EV or HFCV variant on Salisbury Plain! :ROFLMAO:
 

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Why isn't it? It's far more environmentally damaging to build a huge fossil fuelled motorhome than to build a small light caravan.

I can see new caravans being more aerodynamic than currently (currently people won't trade interior space for aerodynamics as they can't see it on an ICE car) but if they are towing with an EV it will become an issue. However charging points need a rethink - how will you charge a car towing a caravan? They won't fit well into many charging bays with the caravan attached, and I wouldn't want to leave a caravan unattended in a Motorway services whilst I charge my car......

In the Caravan parking, they need at least 1 charger, set to be fine to run the cable to all 4 corners of the tow vehicle.....
There's no reason for motorhomes to be ICE. Also, people use the "I'll need to tow once a year" to justify an otherwise unnecessarily large and inefficient tow vehicle.

The alternative option was this concept by Dethleffs
 
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