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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There is a recall #199 on many, if not most, Kona EVs due to a software fault in the electronic braking system that can lead to sudden complete loss of braking (pedal to the floor nothing!). This happened to my cousin today who owns a Kona EV and he was lucky to not get injured. I've attached the recall notice. Is there any reason to believe that the electronic braking system on our Niro Evs is not identical with similar risk of sudden total loss of braking? There is not yet any announcement of a similar recall from Kia. This makes me very nervous. Your thoughts please?
 

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Possibly related, but also very possibly not so do take with a pinch of salt: Teslabjorn made a video about an alleged brake failure incident in an e-niro (that led to a crash), in which he tried very hard to reproduce the failure and couldn't, loosely concluding that the claim was probably false.

I've had no issues over 1500 miles and won't hesitate to drive my family around in it. If all else fails, pull the EPB switch (handbrake) to use mechanical brakes.
 

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Kia e-Niro 4 MY20, Zoe Z.E.50 GT Line
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The descriptions of this recall and that it’s software related don’t fit with “pedal to the floor, nothing”. What can happen, and I experienced this in my old Mondeo, is loss of power assistance that makes the brakes heavy and feel like they’re not working.
 

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I'd agree. The technical description for the Kona, which I'll assume is the same, shows that the system in what they call "backup operation" is nothing more than an unassisted conventional dual circuit hydraulic brake system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I got more details about my cousins Kona incident. He described an extremely mushy pedal and significantly reduced braking capacity despite pressing the brake pedal as far as it would go. The distance required to stop the car even at 50 mph was increased dramatically and had there not been a shoulder to pull off on, he would have rear ended the vehicle ahead which was slowing for a red light. This is the significant reduction of braking reported in the NHTSA recall...

"is due to a possible defect with the Integrated Electronic Brake system, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).

In 8,176 affected vehicles, the IEB detects an abnormal sensor signal, and reduces braking power, according to the NHTSA recall report."
 

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Kia e-Niro MY20 64 kWh - Gravity Blue
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Even though the Kona and the e-Niro share the same powertrain, the platforms are different so my guess is the brake systems are different as well.
 

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Kia e-Niro 4 MY20, Zoe Z.E.50 GT Line
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I got more details about my cousins Kona incident. He described an extremely mushy pedal and significantly reduced braking capacity despite pressing the brake pedal as far as it would go. The distance required to stop the car even at 50 mph was increased dramatically and had there not been a shoulder to pull off on, he would have rear ended the vehicle ahead which was slowing for a red light. This is the significant reduction of braking reported in the NHTSA recall...

"is due to a possible defect with the Integrated Electronic Brake system, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).

In 8,176 affected vehicles, the IEB detects an abnormal sensor signal, and reduces braking power, according to the NHTSA recall report."
No matter the technical details, that’s scary stuff.
 

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Even though the Kona and the e-Niro share the same powertrain, the platforms are different so my guess is the brake systems are different as well.
Agree. Hyundai/Kia are not idiots. If they're recalling some models but not others, they will have worked that through. A company of their size is not going to say "We need to recall Konas, but let's not bother to check if any other models have the same software."
 

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I'd agree. The technical description for the Kona, which I'll assume is the same, shows that the system in what they call "backup operation" is nothing more than an unassisted conventional dual circuit hydraulic brake system.
Which if I recall need something like 100kgs of pressure on the pedal to get full braking effect? Anyone new to driving in the last 30 years will NOT understand that and assume their brakes have completely failed!!
 

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It just gets worse and worse for the Kona, doesn’t it?
 

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It just gets worse and worse for the Kona, doesn’t it?
Not sure it does? Today dealer collected my car improved it by applying the relevant update and brought it back to me a couple of hours later, all as you would expect at zero cost to me. Granted some cars could have done this OTA but mine can't, so was a bit of extra hassle for the dealer. I wasn't going anywhere, but if I had been I could have had a courtesy car.
Having had a flaw rectified I think my car is improved, apparently you think my car is now somehow worse?
 

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Even though the Kona and the e-Niro share the same powertrain, the platforms are different so my guess is the brake systems are different as well.
In what photos I can find it's visually identical. It's a complicated unit and likely pulled from the Hyundai/Kia parts bin. I've never seen any report of this failure on a Kona other than the OP.
It just gets worse and worse for the Kona, doesn’t it?
It would be worse if stuff wasn't fixed.
 

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Not sure it does? Today dealer collected my car improved it by applying the relevant update and brought it back to me a couple of hours later, all as you would expect at zero cost to me. Granted some cars could have done this OTA but mine can't, so was a bit of extra hassle for the dealer. I wasn't going anywhere, but if I had been I could have had a courtesy car.
Having had a flaw rectified I think my car is improved, apparently you think my car is now somehow worse?
It’s a new car that’s been recalled twice at least, because the brakes sometimes stop working and it might also burst into flames. It’s not going well is it? 🙃
 

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Well obviously not needing a recall would be better, but it's hardly unique in issues coming to light. I had a quick look at the cars in your sig to see if I had my rose tinted specs on.

Zsev - yep recalled wiring loom issue
Model 3 - yep recalled roof can fly off
Zoe - yep recalled wheel arch liner can damage brake hose
I3 - yep recalled lots of issues
Leaf 40 - yep recalled rear window glass “may not remain properly secured to the vehicle,” which could increase the risk of an accident while driving
Ampera - yep recalled to rectify fire risk
Twist - yep recalled to rectify brake fluid leaks
Egolf - yep recalled battery software issues.

What's important in all these cases is that the manufacturers took ownership of the issues and rectified it, with the minimum possible inconvenience. . . So far Hyundai have been good about sorting out issues without inconveniencing me.
Of course if next time I could choose a car with no issues that would be even better, but looking at the 100% hit rate for recalls for both your and my recent choices that seems to be somewhat unlikely.
 

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Hi all
I have 2019 first generation kia e-niro, one morning when starting the car all warning lights regarding the brakes came on eg:abs, auto hold etc... With the message"brake fault" It would drive but only in limp mode, I left the car for 30 min then tried it again and no warning lights came on, so I continued to use it for a week!!!! Then one morning when waiting at the traffic lights the warning lights came on again and car went into limp mode, I pulled into a side street waited 30 minutes, no warning lights so I made my way home, again as I was Pulling away from the traffic the light near my house the warning lights came back on and it went into limp mode but I had little brakes I was lucky not to be going faster than 10 mph and I was a few hundred yards from my house!!!! I was barely able to stop the car so I parked it up and it was recovered and sent to Kia, I've had the car for a few days after 2 weeks and was told "
The fault with the vehicle was the IEB Unit, in normal cars as this is a electric car, its known as a abs module.
This is a module and motor which supplies brake fluid pressure to the callipers.
The unit was getting power intermittently, the initial fault was the pump inside the motor was failing.
We have fitted a new one and the lights have gone off and the pump is now working."
My millage is 52000 and I've had it serviced every 10000 miles.
I love the Kia e-niro but this experience as put a dent in my confidence with the car. If this fault can arise at speed then a recall is a must........
Happy driving
 

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Hi all
I have 2019 first generation kia e-niro, one morning when starting the car all warning lights regarding the brakes came on eg:abs, auto hold etc... With the message"brake fault" It would drive but only in limp mode, I left the car for 30 min then tried it again and no warning lights came on, so I continued to use it for a week!!!! Then one morning when waiting at the traffic lights the warning lights came on again and car went into limp mode, I pulled into a side street waited 30 minutes, no warning lights so I made my way home, again as I was Pulling away from the traffic the light near my house the warning lights came back on and it went into limp mode but I had little brakes I was lucky not to be going faster than 10 mph and I was a few hundred yards from my house!!!! I was barely able to stop the car so I parked it up and it was recovered and sent to Kia, I've had the car for a few days after 2 weeks and was told "
The fault with the vehicle was the IEB Unit, in normal cars as this is a electric car, its known as a abs module.
This is a module and motor which supplies brake fluid pressure to the callipers.
The unit was getting power intermittently, the initial fault was the pump inside the motor was failing.
We have fitted a new one and the lights have gone off and the pump is now working."
My millage is 52000 and I've had it serviced every 10000 miles.
I love the Kia e-niro but this experience as put a dent in my confidence with the car. If this fault can arise at speed then a recall is a must........
Happy driving
I would have been straight round to the nearest Kia garage the first time the warning lights came on.
 
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