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Live by the sword. Don't intend to die by it.
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"tHeRe's nO wAy We CaN cHaNgE iN nEaRlY tWo DeCaDes!"


The article downplays it as saying we need better infrastructure, but it boils down to "we want to carry on selling ICE"
 

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I can't see more than a handful of legacy manufacturers still being around come 2035.
Aren't VW trying to renege on their previous promises too?
Now Nissan are caught up in an emissions scandal, the sooner the old school manufacturers disappear up their collective exhaust pipes, the better.
Either innovate, or become obsolete.
It couldn't be simpler.
 

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The British motorcycle industry lost its dominance in the '70's by failing to react to the competition from Japan. There's no reason other than protectionism that the car manufacturers will do likewise against the Chinese in the next decade regardless of the environmental requirements to change their products. Like Generals continually preparing to fight the last war they have the wrong products produced in the wrong way and don't understand the imperative to change. I just hope that Tesla can reach critical mass before they are swamped with lower cost copies.
 

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Leaf lover
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What progress has Ford UK made toward the first step in the transition to their fleet of vehicles being "electric". Not a lot as far as I know.
Can I today buy a Fiesta series hybrid? Not that I am aware of.
So unless Ford show they have accepted that electric motors should be the only thing turning the wheels (that first step) why should anyone listen to them?
 

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Renault Zoe 50
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What progress has Ford UK made toward the first step in the transition to their fleet of vehicles being "electric". Not a lot as far as I know.
Can I today buy a Fiesta series hybrid? Not that I am aware of.
So unless Ford show they have accepted that electric motors should be the only thing turning the wheels (that first step) why should anyone listen to them?
You can order an electric Mustang.

New Kuga is a plug-in hybrid.

The rest of the fleet are mainly mild hybrids.
 

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Oems think it's them vs tesla.
And in a way it is.
And if they can't compete they CANNOT fall back to low margin high numbers
Because if they can't use the profits margins off a model X and S class cars to make the switch......

And to misquote.
Dont try and and compete with the Chinese.
Thry will drag you down to thier price and beat you with experiance.

Ford only really sells one vehicle, the F150, thry need to electrify it ASAP.

Everything else is low profit Chinese bait.
 

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Ford only really sells one vehicle, the F150, thry need to electrify it ASAP.
Ford F-150 Electric Pickup Truck Coming Within 24-Months (By Mid-2022)

Two years from now - they aren't really trying are they? The standard F150 is an incredibly simple piece of construction with a separate chassis - ideal for modification as required to site batteries and motors. My guess is that they are awaiting something in terms of battery availability/cost - it will need a huge pack to accommodate the gross inefficiencies of the basic design - barn door aerodynamics with a vast frontal area, high weight, parasitic losses from semi-offroad tyres. Easy to get around with a V8 running dyno-juice which exposes the one weakness of BEVs.
 

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Leaf lover
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You can order an electric Mustang.

New Kuga is a plug-in hybrid.

The rest of the fleet are mainly mild hybrids.
The Mustang will only sell in limited numbers unless Ford can make a profit on them.
And the Kuga PHEV and their mild hybrids are not EVs, they are parallel hybrids.

I choose the Fiesta because it is the UKs top selling car, what excuse do suppose Ford can give as to why we cannot purchase that as a series hybrid?
And that same question can be put to all the leading legacy auto makers with regard to their top selling vehicles.
The honest answer would be they have yet to accept that electric motors should be the only thing turning the wheels, ie they are not prepared to make the first step.
 

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Ford F-150 Electric Pickup Truck Coming Within 24-Months (By Mid-2022)

Two years from now - they aren't really trying are they? The standard F150 is an incredibly simple piece of construction with a separate chassis - ideal for modification as required to site batteries and motors. My guess is that they are awaiting something in terms of battery availability/cost - it will need a huge pack to accommodate the gross inefficiencies of the basic design - barn door aerodynamics with a vast frontal area, high weight, parasitic losses from semi-offroad tyres. Easy to get around with a V8 running dyno-juice which exposes the one weakness of BEVs.
I might be wrong, but I don’t get the sense that your average F150 buyer is all that interested in an electric pick up.
 

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MG EZS 2020
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I have seen pure petrol with better!
This is perfectly understandable. Pure ICE don't have to carry around the extra weight of the batteries and the additional motor. This is why hybrids should be an extremely short lived stop gap on the route to full BEV.
 

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30KW Tekna (2017)
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This is perfectly understandable. Pure ICE don't have to carry around the extra weight of the batteries and the additional motor. This is why hybrids should be an extremely short lived stop gap on the route to full BEV.
It it makes people feel better about range anxiety I’m not too bothered but they should be banned from using destination chargers!

😱

ohhhh contentious!!! LOL
 

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I very nearly bought a new Ford Mondao estate last yeah, all excited it was a hybrid, when I looked at the MPG I literally did a double take, I have seen pure petrol with better!
Last I looked they were buying Toyotas hybrid system from ~2004 and adding a slightly larger, less efficient petrol engine. It's weak.

Although I would say it has a decent chance of actually achieving the MPG numbers (my 2009 Prius did) unlike the pure/tiny turbo petrols which post great numbers in tests but suck in the real world.
 
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Leaf lover
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Personally I think that unless governments get a proper understanding of the basic technological options that can move the transition forward it will all come down to market forces which includes any lobbying Ford do.
Which means we are back to Tesla keeping up the pressure for change.
 

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I might be wrong, but I don’t get the sense that your average F150 buyer is all that interested in an electric pick up.
In which case Ford is dead in the water and needs to reinvent itself ASAP. I wonder why its share price values it less than Tesla or Nikola Motor (who have produced nothing yet)? :rolleyes:
 

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Last I looked they were buying Toyotas hybrid system from ~2004 and adding a slightly larger, less efficient petrol engine. It's weak.

Although I would say it has a decent chance of actually achieving the MPG numbers (my 2009 Prius did) unlike the pure/tiny turbo petrols which post great numbers in tests but suck in the real world.
Like Toyota they aren't PHEVs.

Ford Mondeo Hybrid estate (2019) review: must try harder
Open the boot of the new estate version of the Mondeo Hybrid and the story of this disappointing car is there right in front of you. Instead of the big boot this comfortable, relaxed car provides in non-hybrid form, here you see a much-reduced luggage area. There’s a bizarrely large bulge, as if someone has hastily tried to conceal a couple of corpses under the carpet. It is, in fact, the battery and electric motor.

The fact that the hybrid element is so clearly an afterthought manifests itself not just as an unusual level of luggage-hostility for an estate car. It also results in the powertrain feeling like it’s at war with the rest of the car, and indeed with the driver.

On the road and on paper there are pros and cons, but there’s nothing that will persuade a Kuga buyer that the Mondeo is better value, more practical and (at least in some ways) better to drive, even though it is.

At its best it has the virtues of any good Mondeo, and in our couple of days with the Hybrid, we got an average fuel consumption figure in the mid-40s. That’s not all all bad for a big-boned petrol estate.

But, unfortunately, that’s not the result of it being an inherently efficient design. It’s the result of the driver losing the will to keep battling against its flaws, and just driving slowly everywhere.

Ford is surely capable of building a much better eco Mondeo than this, but market trends suggest that may never happen. Shame.
As usual I'm not the target market, but ..........
 

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In which case Ford is dead in the water and needs to reinvent itself ASAP.
Not if it’s customers want and carry on buying V8 F150s, and the governments of the countries they live in allow them to.

Maybe they will retreat to those markets, that‘s a reinvention of sorts.

EVs might be an important and growing bubble in most of the West, but it’s still a tiny one and it will be a very long time before they penetrate markets to a massive extent everywhere.
 

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We looked at a Ford Kuga PHEV to replace my wife's current car but at £34K for 35 miiles of electric range at best it seemed very expensive, given that they had given an ambitious £15K bubble value at 4 years old. As a comparison she has been offered a similar spec ICE about £15K cost over 3 years. We can purchase around 15,000 litres of petrol for that £19K difference, yes, the Kuga will probably be worth a bit more in 3 years time, but not that much. We would love to replace her car with an EV but the choice of family cars with a decent range is small and still very expensive. Having looked at the Ford PHEV offering it's confirmed my view that PHEV's are too expensive, complex and heavy, remove the expensive ICE engine and gear box and fit a decent sized battery. With EV / ICE price parity expected in 2025 why would you want to still be manufacturing ICE's when no one will want to buy them

Ford and many of the other old car companies need to get on and design a decent electric platform that they can use for their volume cars and commit to a rapid move over of production. If they don't their market share will fall, together with their profits making the change over relatively more expensive. Complaining that the time frame is too short rather than getting on with job isn't the way to go. Given it's taken VW several years to get to the point where they are selling cars if Ford and the others start now they will be very close to that price parity point by the time they are actually selling cars.
 

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As a comparison she has been offered a similar spec ICE about £15K cost over 3 years.
Is that £15k and you'll own it, or £15 to rent it for 3 years?

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As for Ford, I hope they go bankrupt, with that sort of crappy attitude. Let the retreat to the U.S. and get beaten by all of the new comers to the market, and be assigned to the history books for good. If a business can't be forward looking for the good of the planet and the human race then why bother.

"We only want to change if we get paid for it" :mad:
 
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