[Tooks]

Obviously to young

@HandyAndy The "energy being consumed in heating the battery thing" is interesting, a more extreme example of what I have seen at home, not sure what that tells us about the BMS and how it is managing heating the battery and if that is a software tweak rather than a hardware change ? I'm not sure if this makes any sense but if energy is being used to heat the battery is that the best use of the energy or should it be used to push the car forwards ?

Anyone know what that whole system on the ID.3 looks like in comparison to the e-Golf ? Are the batteries the same design ?

Speculation city here (that's a 70's reference)

There’s a bit of technical information about the ID.3 battery here, a bit old now, but seems accurate based on what we know now the car is released.

Here's the battery pack behind VW's global electric-vehicle push

No single core component in an electric vehicle costs more—or probably matters more for the acceptance of EVs—than the battery pack. Many would argue that one of the best decisions Tesla ever made was going with the Panasonic 18650 cells in the Model S (and later, Model X). Thanks in part to...

www.greencarreports.com

The e-Golf battery is also pouch cell based, but obviously no water cooling/heating on that one.

I suppose in theory, it would have been possible to push a cold pack on the e-Golf, I never noticed any limiting of performance, and could only be pre-heated by finishing a charge being passive.

Actually, thinking about it, that’s how I use my ID.3 for my long trips. It sits idle at 60-80% charged, and I finish the last 40-20% just before departure. It would appear to be the only way to heat the battery whilst plugged in, but might explain my slightly higher range than some are getting.

 

[Malcolm Hedges]

but might explain my slightly higher range than some are getting.

Aaah, that might be worth experimenting with, whose up on a journey next ? And I'm guessing if you followed that procedure on a rapid you might've a little more success (more energy going in from a rapid)

I'd volunteer but my car is still in the dealers

 

[HandyAndy]

Sorry HandyAndy - your spread sheet is interesting but you appear to using the word power when it should be energy. It may all be clear to you, but for others its a rather fundamental aspect to getting the correct understanding of discharging and charging processes...

I was wondering who'd be the first to spot that! Guilty m'lud, the rozzers got me bang to rights...

 

[mrsaffron237]

Same trip as last weekend coming up so will do a top up of last 2% and warm cabin while plugged in on Friday.

25 miles of windy AB roads then ACC pegged at 70. Was 2.8mi/kwh but had been down at 2 in early part.

 

[Tooks]

Same trip as last weekend coming up so will do a top up of last 2% and warm cabin while plugged in on Friday.

25 miles of windy AB roads then ACC pegged at 70. Was 2.8mi/kwh but had been down at 2 in early part.

2%? I presume that’s a typo and you meant 20%?

It will need a fair % charged to get it warmed through even at 7kW.

 

[njm106]

I've just got back from a trip to the dealers, they couldn't fix anything but they did send me a nice video of the underside being inspected, tyres and suspension all fine, I should bloody hope so on a brand new car!!

Anyway back to the point the journey is the same way as my wife's commute just a mile longer now she's been averaging 2.2-2.4 m/kWh on an 11 mile trip from cold doesn't seem to matter how she drove or what the heater was set to. I managed 2.4m/kWh on the way there as the battery heater was on up until the last few miles. On the way back the battery was warm so I got 3.7 m/kWh average speed was 25mph its about 3 miles of town driving and then 40-60mph main road I thought that was pretty good considering it was bucketing it down.

 

[mrsaffron237]

2%? I presume that’s a typo and you meant 20%?

It will need a fair % charged to get it warmed through even at 7kW.

No 2%, can do same trip with final charge from 80% to 100% next week. So this week should be very similar to last week.

lockdown limits trips but bubble visits to help with ill father ie give mum break and take him to appts.

 

[Tooks]

No 2%, can do same trip with final charge from 80% to 100% next week. So this week should be very similar to last week.

lockdown limits trips but bubble visits to help with ill father ie give mum break and take him to appts.

I’m doing similar with my father, although he lives alone.

Best of luck with it all. 👍

 

[DanP]

Not much better at 50mph average, although it was 65 on the acc then fast single carriageway with towns and villages to drive through with various speed limits from 30-50.
Average was 2.7mi/kWh. The Golf would have been over 3 but would have needed to stop and charge. I did wonder if I might need to charge in the ID.

Interesting, we have an i3 but tried an ID.3 in Dec as something bigger (both car and battery!) would be handy at times.

Did a regular 200 mile round trip in the i3 last weekend, 4 up with luggage, about 2 degrees, average of 50mph (town/A roads/M4) and averaged 3.6 miles/kWh.

Hoped an ID.3 might get there and back without charging (I’m happy to do early 60’s on the motorway) but would need warmer weather by the sounds of it!

 

[AdrianMc]

Interesting, we have an i3 but tried an ID.3 in Dec as something bigger (both car and battery!) would be handy at times.

Did a regular 200 mile round trip in the i3 last weekend, 4 up with luggage, about 2 degrees, average of 50mph (town/A roads/M4) and averaged 3.6 miles/kWh.

Hoped an ID.3 might get there and back without charging (I’m happy to do early 60’s on the motorway) but would need warmer weather by the sounds of it!

I'm with you. i3 REX owner.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

 

[Woodulike]

My car has been on the granny charger all day, and was last week as well. Probably doesn't heat the battery much but it might help a little.
Same 88 mile trip as last Wednesday but light rain all the way as well as cold at 1.5-2°C. I had the heating set at 19 and eco drive mode.
I started with 70mph set on the acc then up to 75 once the A1M section started.

Average speed was 69 this week but consumption was down to 2.2mi/kWh, I guess that's the rain.

Cars in for the update tomorrow and I'll be driving the Golf for the day. I might try the long way to work to test it with the acc set at 75.

 

[OB1CCFC]

This Nextmove set of winter ID3 tests from December 9th (surprisingly) concluded that the ID3 does NOT heat the battery from a wall charger plugin, but only from the main battery!! Unclear what software version this was.
VW responded that they know the issue and it will be resolved in the update, I assume 2.1.

Winter performance: nextmove tests battery, quick charging, heating

Winter performance of electric vehicles: nextmove tests battery, quick charging, heating of ID.3 and Kia e-Niro - what about a heat pump?

nextmove.de

 

[Malcolm Hedges]

Hence why it would appear you need to pump energy back in to compensate. From my one of trial the car is taking more energy out of the battery to heat itself than a home 7kw charger can put back in (30 minute test) so possibly the alternative is to charge/heat for longer or charge at a rapid.

All a bit of a faff, for me it is what it is I'll work round it for now and hope VW provide a better solution via a software update. The Bjorn camping test showing it spiking for 15 minutes to warm the batterywas interesting, hopefully this has spiked his interest enough to get him to find a dongle and software to analyse it further and find out what's going on.

 

[Malcolm Hedges]

Part 2 is up

 

[Tooks]

Hence why it would appear you need to pump energy back in to compensate. From my one of trial the car is taking more energy out of the battery to heat itself than a home 7kw charger can put back in (30 minute test) so possibly the alternative is to charge/heat for longer or charge at a rapid.

All a bit of a faff, for me it is what it is I'll work round it for now and hope VW provide a better solution via a software update. The Bjorn camping test showing it spiking for 15 minutes to warm the batterywas interesting, hopefully this has spiked his interest enough to get him to find a dongle and software to analyse it further and find out what's going on.

Charging the last 30-40% to full just prior to departure for long journeys is how I’ve used all my EVs, so it’s normal good practice for me. It seems to benefit the ID.3 in particular as it requires its battery to be at 17c for both full performance and to avoid a draw from itself to warm it to that temp once underway.

Clearly though, in sub zero temps that’s going to continue to be a power requirement and explains the cold efficiency, or lack thereof.

 

[Tooks]

Part 2 is up

I watched that yesterday evening, there’s a further video to come I think for the cold weather range test.

Even during this video, you could see from the blue bar in the central display that he didn’t have full power available (it was -20 to -25c of course) and would explain why his charge stops were ‘slow’, although he did get 100kW at the end when he’d done a bit of motorway running and the battery was up to temp.

As he also concludes, this was for him in Norway, more southerly latitudes just aren’t going to get these temps or problems.

 

[OB1CCFC]

Hence why it would appear you need to pump energy back in to compensate. From my one of trial the car is taking more energy out of the battery to heat itself than a home 7kw charger can put back in (30 minute test) so possibly the alternative is to charge/heat for longer or charge at a rapid.

All a bit of a faff, for me it is what it is I'll work round it for now and hope VW provide a better solution via a software update. The Bjorn camping test showing it spiking for 15 minutes to warm the batterywas interesting, hopefully this has spiked his interest enough to get him to find a dongle and software to analyse it further and find out what's going on.

You would assume that the car knew someone was in the car and may want to use it soon, so it was keeping the battery warm.
Or it’s just a bug😉

 

[Woodulike]

Hence why it would appear you need to pump energy back in to compensate. From my one of trial the car is taking more energy out of the battery to heat itself than a home 7kw charger can put back in (30 minute test) so possibly the alternative is to charge/heat for longer or charge at a rapid.

Is that from your battery only being at 98% when you left Saturday morning?
I noticed that at 95% the Zappis showing 3.5kW going to the car.
If the battery heater was drawing 5-6-7kW from the battery and the battery is only charging at 3.5kW that's probably the issue.
If they have changed it to only heat from the mains when it's plugged in that would help that situation.
When I started the preheat while charging the Zappi was reporting 7.2 going to the car and the battery charge level was increasing as well, it did get to 100% but took a while.
Maybe 3 phase charging would help with 11kW available from the chargers

 

[Malcolm Hedges]

Yup Zappi was pushing out 7.2, car SOC dropped 3% in 30 minutes ..... of course that's presuming we trust displayed SOC

Car still with dealers (I think their phones only receive calls they cannot place an outward call), should pick it up Saturday

 

[Woodulike]

I've been driving the Golf today trying to see what the efficiency is like on a cold wet day. I took the long way to work on the A14. It was only 12 miles so it was hard to get the average speed up but I was driving it harder than I normally would, and faster at times than I have been driving the ID3.
After 12 miles my average speed was 67mph and the average mi/kWh was 2.7

On the way home I took my normal route. It's mostly small country roads but I was driving as quickly as I could and trying not to be efficient. I didn't preheat. By the time I got home it was at 2.9mi/kWh.
The car was reading 1-2°C and the roads were very wet but it wasn't raining.

The ID3 driven more carefully, without preheat, similar temperature and less water on the road was 1.9mi/kWh last week.