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Discussion Starter #1
Recently went for a test drive in a 1ST Plus Edition ID.3. Was incredibly impressed with the car. As a previous GTE driver, it felt familiar, solid, confident and premium. I’ve had pre-orders down on both the ID.3 and the Model 3 since they were announced - cancelling them both when the final prices + specs were released. I’m looking to replace our 2014 70-miles range Leaf with something more competent, so both the ID.3 and the M3 are back on the cards.

I would like to request some help from the community to inform this decision, if I may? :)

So, the choice is: do I spend £10k less and get the Life trim ID3, or should I stretch to the Model 3?

In terms of the drive, I was more than happy with the ID3 after my test drive. I’m more concerned with the software capabilities - specifically, the semi- and fully-autonomous driving features. The M3 has hardware for full autonomy - if I buy that car, some time in the future it will drive itself, and Tesla release software weekly that takes it closer and closer to full autonomy. The question is, how close can the ID3 get to autonomy right now? Do VW have plans for adding autonomy to the ID3 in the future? I have no plans to replace the car for the forseeable future, and autonomy is a big deal for me.

Trying to decipher which ID3 trim level comes with what seems to be quite the challenge, and doesn’t make direct comparisons any easier.

I can see here (https://www.drivingelectric.com/volkswagen/id3/783/volkswagen-id3-electric-specs-price-details-and-release-date ) what the Tech and Max trims have over and above the Life:

The Tech (£36,190) focuses on driver assistance systems and in-car technology, coming with semi-autonomous driving features as well as a major infotainment package including a head-up display and premium audio system. Max (£38,220) is the standard range-topper and includes all the equipment from the other trim levels, along with a 12-way adjustable massage seat, progressive steering and dynamic cruise control.

But what is the ‘semi-autonomous driving feature’ in the Tech, ‘dynamic cruise control’ in the Max, and how does that compare to the 1ST Plus I test drove? Does anyone know what these feature are, specifically?

In terms of cost and comparing VW apples against Tesla oranges, I think it seems to come down to this:

ID3 Tour
342 miles range
£39,290
Est £5k 1 year depreciation?
Dynamic cruise, lane keep assist,... any other semi-autonomous features?
No capability for full autonomy in the future

Model 3 Standard Range
267 miles range
£40,490
Negligible 1 yr depreciation (I’ve seen 2nd hand SRs going for nearly list price)
Dynamic cruise, self-driving autopilot on motorways
Full autonomy in the future + £10,000

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 

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Tesla's SuperCharger network always wins it for me in these kinds of comparisons
 

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My thoughts are generally you might see more regulatory autonomy on motorways re speed and lane control within 5 to 7 years but we are probably 20 years from non motorway. It is just politically not a runner.
I wouldn’t see it as a factor on the purchase of a car in 2020. In fact it probably just adds superfluous cost at this point.
 

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i have test driven both and have another extended test drive with the ID3 this weekend. Although the tesla is clearly "bristling" with features my gut feel is that it wont stand the test of time, although I'll accept that I could be jumping to conclusions. I base this on :

1) flap in centre console kept popping up during test drive. Generally build quality and road feel was inferior to the ID3.
2) under wheel arches don't have any protection, will this chip and rust (don't know)
3) flap for plug in needed encouragement to close (maybe just need to get used to it)

I don't doubt the infotainment is ahead on the tesla but do you really need the car to tell you the traffic lights are red ?
 

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I've looked (online) at the Model 3. I did consider a test drive. Of course there is the Supercharger network that I know I'll end up looking longingly and enviously at at some point. However, I won't be doing that many journeys that require charging away from home. I think I'm going to order an ID3 Tour when I can for a number of reasons:

Range: I live on my own and don't currently have a car, there's no backup ICE available to me. I want to be able to avoid the public charging network as much as possible. I'd like to be able to drive to my parents (150 miles), visit my sister and her family whilst there (30 mile round trip), charge a bit on a granny charger at my parents and drive back home. The Tour will allow me to do that for about £8000 less than the Model 3 LR. I was originally considering a Golf before I started properly looking at BEV, I'm just the sort of person the ID3 has been targeted at.

Insurance: I've got a clean license I've had for 20 years, but as I've not owned a car I've not got any no claims to help bring down the price. Insurance quotes I've got for a Model 3 LR have been about 80% more than an ID3.

Software: Seems an odd one, but I'll explain. I've no doubt the actual Telsa software is way ahead of the ID3 and will continue to be so. Yet there's one thing it doesn't have - CarPlay / Android Auto. I want to be able to get in my car, tap on the screen and carry on listening to a podcast or album that I was at home Air Played to my Sonos, or when I went for a walk, or was on the train / bus (for days I don't drive). The Model 3 can't do that - the best it's got is Spotify, but my understanding is that it's separate (and not synced) from any account I'd use elsewhere. I know there is always Bluetooth, but when I've driven hire cars, the ability to carry on with my listening straight away is great. Thats without mentioning other compatible apps (streaming audio services, sports commentaries, other map services) that I might want to use. If I didn't have that I just know it would wind me up each and every day.

No doubt Model 3 has many advantages, and there are things about the ID3 I wish were better / different, but I think the ID3 is winning out for me.
 

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Bit intrigued as to why you're not also looking at the Kona and/or e-Niro (and others for that matter). Never felt like paying extra for brand/image myself and my Kona has been a star. Quick, comfortable, versatile and averaging 4.3m/kWh. Seem to be getting the claimed range - drove from south of Bristol to Bolton and had 70 miles left on arrival. Now done nearly 14,000 miles and only cost (apart from Octopus leccy at 5p/kWh) was 10,000 service approx. £80.
 

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I am in the same position as you and after a lot of helpful comments, will probably go for the Model 3.
 

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The things I'll miss when the Model 3 goes back are Netflix, youtube and Beach Buggy Racing 2 (I use public chargers a lot) and I suppose the hot hatch performance even in my basic model. Also the teslacam sentry software with cameras all round the car has saved my bacon recently in an insurance claim.
 
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The things I'll miss when the Model 3 goes back are Netflix, youtube and Beach Buggy Racing 2 (I use public chargers a lot) and I suppose the hot hatch performance even in my basic model. Also the teslacam sentry software with cameras all round the car has saved my bacon recently in an insurance claim.
I don't thick the id3 will allow you to do 330 miles work only a bit of granny charging.
 

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Bit intrigued as to why you're not also looking at the Kona and/or e-Niro (and others for that matter). Never felt like paying extra for brand/image myself and my Kona has been a star. Quick, comfortable, versatile and averaging 4.3m/kWh. Seem to be getting the claimed range - drove from south of Bristol to Bolton and had 70 miles left on arrival. Now done nearly 14,000 miles and only cost (apart from Octopus leccy at 5p/kWh) was 10,000 service approx. £80.
Can’t speak for the OP, but I’ve certainly considered the e-Niro, I test drove one a month ago. There’s a lot to like about it, the reported efficiency being one of its big strengths. That means it would come close to fulfilling main range requirement. I thought it drove very nicely (I had a slight preference for how the ID3 felt, but not by much), it seemed very well put together, very well speced as well.

My main problem was that I just didn’t find the seats very comfortable, and the fact that I was quoted a 9 month wait time for a 4+, even though it seems to be shorter than that. I’m a little put off by some of the reports of it being easy to get wheelspin when it’s wet. For someone with a family I can see the extra boot space would be useful, it’s just not something I need. There’s a couple of things I’d like it to have (faster charging, HUD, wireless car play without relying on a third party adapter), but they wouldn’t put me off it.

With the ID3 Tour not being available yet and the e-Niro 4+ having some availability I may well go and give it another test drive to see if it was just how I sat in the seat on that test drive. Given I’m already going to be spending more than I’d planned to (on a Golf), it’s only really the ID3 and the e-Niro (or the Soul, just not keen on how it looks) that fulfil my range criteria without going well north of £40,000 OTR.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the amazing comments everyone. Sorry I didn’t look for the other (very useful) thread - of course others have been in the same dilemma!

Yeah, I have seen the Niro and the Kona (And the Ioniq) - but none of them get me as excited as the ID.3 (cos I’ve had a Golf and loved the quality) or the Tesla (come on, it’s a Tesla). And the price of the top-end e-Niro isn’t that much cheaper than a LR Model 3? (£40k?)

I didn’t know about the charging issues with the ID.3 and Zappi. The ID.3 software generally sounds fairly ropey - I certainly saw some issues in the 90 min test drive I had. The build quality issues with the Model 3 are also well known - entering a quality lottery with £46k worth of my hard earned is certainly the opposite of nice.

Still no clear winners! Loving the comments though - thanks :)
 

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I saw a comment in a review that the interior of the Model 3 had the build quality of a Star Wars prop! Although I would have to say the one I test-drove felt very solid. I would be concerned that VW may never fully get on top of all the software bugs with the ID3 - they've had nearly a year to fix it already and it's kind of worrying that they released a product with so many known faults.
 

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On the other side of the coin is if you are involved in a prang and the car has to go in for repair, where are the nearest tesla service / repair centres as opposed to vw dealerships, repairs to the tesla's appear to be quite expensive for relatively minor prangs. Will the ID.3 be cheaper/easier to repair - who knows, just something to think about...
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I saw a comment in a review that the interior of the Model 3 had the build quality of a Star Wars prop! Although I would have to say the one I test-drove felt very solid. I would be concerned that VW may never fully get on top of all the software bugs with the ID3 - they've had nearly a year to fix it already and it's kind of worrying that they released a product with so many known faults.
I think you’re spot on with that comment. One nagging thought I had was that these carmakers do such a poor job with the supporting apps & services - connection issues, sketchy/confusing design, the smartphone app never taking full advantage of the phone’s operating system... I’ve given up with both the Zoe app I had and the 2014 Nissan Leaf app. Underinvested in and undervalued by the manufacturers for years. Not good enough.

After the test drive, getting out of the ID.3 and comparing it to the Model 3 I test drove a few months before, it felt like a very conventional car: the next edition of an established carmaker’s tried-and-tested formula. A car, foremost. EV drivetrain, incidentally. They are a carmaker playing in the software space.

But I think cars should be inherently connected appliances - EV drivetrains require less mechanical fuss and can be more thoroughly optimised through software, and seem to have been a catalyst for carmakers to start rethinking what a car is. The Model 3 felt like a computer on wheels - Tesla seems like a company that focusses as much on its software as its hardware. If you have hardware that provides a solid foundation, you can ship with basic features and improve the experience over time (as Tesla have done). Eventually even changing the nature of the car itself (with increasing levels of autonomy).

I work in the tech industry - I know how hard it is to build great useful software, and this is where cars should be going: appliances to get you from one place to another, as efficiently as possible, and a software platform that can be iterated and improved upon over time to improve the experience. The idea that you ship a car and that’s ostensibly the feature set you’re going to have for the lifetime of the vehicle seems like a very old-school philosophy.
 

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There is also the sinister side to Tesla cars. It invites the reverse baseball hat drivers with loud exhaust pipes to have a go at the lights. Ignore them and you are seen as loser, race them and you will probably win, but is that the constant kind of attention you want?
 
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I think the Tour will, which is why I’m interested in that version.
Highly unlikely. The WLTP range I think is around 330 miles which is typically wildly optimistic. Take off at least 20% and much more in cold wet conditions and also if you want to drive at motorway speed. Then also allow for battery degradation over time.
 

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Highly unlikely. The WLTP range I think is around 330 miles which is typically wildly optimistic. Take off at least 20% and much more in cold wet conditions and also if you want to drive at motorway speed. Then also allow for battery degradation over time.
From what I've seen so far the 58 KWh battery should give 220 miles+ on a motorway run.

Knock 20% off that - 176 miles

On that basis the 77KWh - 233 miles

So, after a bad journey I might need to add 97 miles of range - on the above basis about 32 KWh.

32 KWh @ 2.3KWh should take about 13 hours. Thinking of recent trips to my parents I'd be parked up for that long. I might need significantly less. I said I'd like to avoid public charging if possible, not that I never would. Perhaps after a really bad journey that's what I'd have to do, just not every time.

Which other vehicle at a similar price is going to give me a chance of doing that? A Model 3 SR+ isn't I don't think?
 

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There is also the sinister side to Tesla cars. It invites the reverse baseball hat drivers with loud exhaust pipes to have a go at the lights. Ignore them and you are seen as loser, race them and you will probably win, but is that the constant kind of attention you want?
Huh??...... your post says more about you than the car? whatever, there are cameras all round the car constantly recording video footage so rather than feeling like a loser, you could just laugh it off and/or send video footage to the police if you feel an obvious traffic offence was committed (or your manlyhood has been called into question LOL), its very good quality video and reg numbers are usually clear. Whether the police do anything is another matter, but not a purchase decision making factor IMO .
 
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