Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 188 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I can't remember who, but someone linked to the Kufatech rear speakers on another thread and I was just wondering if anyone knows much about it? If it wasn't for the pandemic I'd be tempted to drive over to Germany to be the donor car, but as that's not possible I'm wondering how easy it's likely to be to get someone in the UK to fit these for me?

The page has this note,

"At the moment, the respective control unit must be unlocked for a limited time before using the dongle. This must be done by a workshop with valid GEKO access."​
What does this mean? Does that mean only a VW dealer would be able to do it? Presumably they wouldn't do it though as they'd grumble about the warranty? I guess what I'm asking is, what are the chances of me finding someone who could fit these in the UK, and what sort of person should I be looking for? VW dealer? Car audio specialist? etc.
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.3 Worst Edition & Tesla M3 LR
Joined
·
6,685 Posts
I can't remember who, but someone linked to the Kufatech rear speakers on another thread and I was just wondering if anyone knows much about it? If it wasn't for the pandemic I'd be tempted to drive over to Germany to be the donor car, but as that's not possible I'm wondering how easy it's likely to be to get someone in the UK to fit these for me?

The page has this note,

"At the moment, the respective control unit must be unlocked for a limited time before using the dongle. This must be done by a workshop with valid GEKO access."​
What does this mean? Does that mean only a VW dealer would be able to do it? Presumably they wouldn't do it though as they'd grumble about the warranty? I guess what I'm asking is, what are the chances of me finding someone who could fit these in the UK, and what sort of person should I be looking for? VW dealer? Car audio specialist? etc.
I linked to it, amongst others, but as you’ve discovered the problem at the moment is that the retrofit would need coding.

Things have changed on the ID.3, VW are moving away from the CANBUS protocol and the third party tool providers are still reverse engineering it. I understand though that due to EU laws they do have to release information that allows third party maintainers to work on and service the vehicles, so that shouldn’t be a long term barrier.

VW dealers will probably quote to retrofit, but obviously you’ll be paying VW labour prices too, and they don’t have much capacity at the moment, obviously.

You could perhaps retrofit yourself, and then just pay for the coding part?

I expect all this will be ironed out in time, it’s just a new car and the usual third party suppliers haven’t developed anything yet.

Just turn the radio up, then it fills the car!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I linked to it, amongst others, but as you’ve discovered the problem at the moment is that the retrofit would need coding.

Things have changed on the ID.3, VW are moving away from the CANBUS protocol and the third party tool providers are still reverse engineering it. I understand though that due to EU laws they do have to release information that allows third party maintainers to work on and service the vehicles, so that shouldn’t be a long term barrier.

VW dealers will probably quote to retrofit, but obviously you’ll be paying VW labour prices too, and they don’t have much capacity at the moment, obviously.

You could perhaps retrofit yourself, and then just pay for the coding part?

I expect all this will be ironed out in time, it’s just a new car and the usual third party suppliers haven’t developed anything yet.

Just turn the radio up, then it fills the car!
Thanks! I think, considering my general ignorance for such things, me fitting myself would be a bad idea! :LOL:

Sounds like adding rear speakers may be achievable in the long run then, but it's just a bit too soon for viable options to be available. It's not something I need to do right this second (certainly not during lockdown!), but would be nice if there's somewhere I could take it to that would do it for me later in the year without it costing the earth.
 

·
Registered
ID3 MAX
Joined
·
188 Posts
I would be very cautious of this until there are at least some user experiences. I would not want to be 1st

Also the upgraded audio also includes a subwoofer no mention of this with the Kufatech speakers. Can the SW be added separately from the rear speakers? Does this lead to a non standard vw configuration that may cause problems.
The sw authorised has enough bugs and faults without introducing non gem changes.

Although it may be possible to find a workshop with GeKO access, there is no guarantee that later OTA software updates will not overwrite any 3rd party changes.
VW could see these coding as unlicensed hacks which could be negated when compared to the mothership configuration for your VIN.

Apple are class leaders for this!

I could be way off here and apologies if I am being pessimistic but Authorised VW service centres are having difficulty with.authorised and supportable SW updates.Knowledge by 3rd parties and support will be virtually nil at the moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would be very cautious of this until there are at least some user experiences. I would not want to be 1st

Also the upgraded audio also includes a subwoofer no mention of this with the Kufatech speakers. Can the SW be added separately from the rear speakers? Does this lead to a non standard vw configuration that may cause problems.
The sw authorised has enough bugs and faults without introducing non gem changes.

Although it may be possible to find a workshop with GeKO access, there is no guarantee that later OTA software updates will not overwrite any 3rd party changes.
VW could see these coding as unlicensed hacks which could be negated when compared to the mothership configuration for your VIN.

Apple are class leaders for this!

I could be way off here and apologies if I am being pessimistic but Authorised VW service centres are having difficulty with.authorised and supportable SW updates.Knowledge by 3rd parties and support will be virtually nil at the moment.
Maybe you’re right. Ah man, I miss the days you used to just cut holes in your parcel shelf, put in the most expensive speakers you could afford in Halfords and it was as simple as that!:confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
I would be very cautious of this until there are at least some user experiences. I would not want to be 1st

Also the upgraded audio also includes a subwoofer no mention of this with the Kufatech speakers. Can the SW be added separately from the rear speakers? Does this lead to a non standard vw configuration that may cause problems.
The sw authorised has enough bugs and faults without introducing non gem changes.

Although it may be possible to find a workshop with GeKO access, there is no guarantee that later OTA software updates will not overwrite any 3rd party changes.
VW could see these coding as unlicensed hacks which could be negated when compared to the mothership configuration for your VIN.

Apple are class leaders for this!

I could be way off here and apologies if I am being pessimistic but Authorised VW service centres are having difficulty with.authorised and supportable SW updates.Knowledge by 3rd parties and support will be virtually nil at the moment.
Yes, I think you might have a point here. With the Mk7 Golf platform VW introduced an official retrofit protocol that allowed VW dealers to both write the coding for equipment retro-fits, whilst at the same time updating the official vehicle spec linked to the VIN on the VAG database. As a third party you could still write the coding to enable the new equipment - but it will never show up as part of the VW registered vehicle spec.....

They’ve (dealers) already started providing full retrofit kits & fitting (eg reversing camera on Mk7 platform).

So in the future (maybe now) I can see that you’ll have to go to VW main dealers for any such retrofit to ensure that it’s not disabled every time the car is updated......after all, dealers will need to be doing something for income when cars don’t need much in the way of servicing/repairs!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes, I think you might have a point here. With the Mk7 Golf platform VW introduced an official retrofit protocol that allowed VW dealers to both write the coding for equipment retro-fits, whilst at the same time updating the official vehicle spec linked to the VIN on the VAG database. As a third party you could still write the coding to enable the new equipment - but it will never show up as part of the VW registered vehicle spec.....

They’ve (dealers) already started providing full retrofit kits & fitting (eg reversing camera on Mk7 platform).

So in the future (maybe now) I can see that you’ll have to go to VW main dealers for any such retrofit to ensure that it’s not disabled every time the car is updated......after all, dealers will need to be doing something for income when cars don’t need much in the way of servicing/repairs!
Oh, well, if dealers will start providing an official rear speaker retrofit for the ID.3 then that’s what I’d go for even at premium prices. I just didn’t think they’d do something like that? But if they did it with the Golf, then maybe...?
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.3 Worst Edition & Tesla M3 LR
Joined
·
6,685 Posts
Oh, well, if dealers will start providing an official rear speaker retrofit for the ID.3 then that’s what I’d go for even at premium prices. I just didn’t think they’d do something like that? But if they did it with the Golf, then maybe...?
I didn’t think they’d retrofit the tow hitch kit, but they do.

To be honest, if VW are going to wrestle control of the software and other updates away from the dealers, then they should be embracing the retrofit market if it materialises.
 

·
Registered
ID3 MAX
Joined
·
188 Posts
Its about money making for VW at the end of the day. They will justify it as software licensing costs.
example: They wanted to charge me £140 to enable voice control on my GTE. There was no hardware involved at all.

Yes they can open the labour element it to 3rd parties (anti competitive laws apply) but part of the overall cost will still be a licensing cost for them to update the mothership configuration which will always go to VW. It will be the only way to stop future SW updates overwriting the updated config. (unless you have your own SW programmer and license) Pretty smart business model for them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Its about money making for VW at the end of the day. They will justify it as software licensing costs.
example: They wanted to charge me £140 to enable voice control on my GTE. There was no hardware involved at all.

Yes they can open the labour element it to 3rd parties (anti competitive laws apply) but part of the overall cost will still be a licensing cost for them to update the mothership configuration which will always go to VW. It will be the only way to stop future SW updates overwriting the updated config. (unless you have your own SW programmer and license) Pretty smart business model for them.
Hey, I’m taking all this as a potential good news story for me :ROFLMAO: I accept it’s anti-competitive and maybe bad for humanity, but I’m now thinking there’s a chance that I might just be able to give my local dealer a big wad of cash and get rear speakers with little VW logos on them put in:D

I’ll ask about it next time I speak with them... still waiting for my rubber mats to arrive so need to chase those with them at some point anyway.
 

·
Registered
Volkswagen ID.3 Life
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
I’ve said it before, but for iPhone users I’d be tempted to plug 2 AirPod minis into the rear USB ports and use those 😆
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I’ve said it before, but for iPhone users I’d be tempted to plug 2 AirPod minis into the rear USB ports and use those 😆
Haha... tempting! :LOL: I honestly can't believe VW is making us think of solutions to add rear speakers to a £30,000+ car in the first place. How much money can they possibly have saved, considering economies of scale, by omitting them? I admit the sound is better than you'd imagine a front-speaker only system to be, but it's still not acceptable on a car this expensive. This is the most money I've ever paid for a car, and it is also the worst stock sound system quality I've had on a car since I was in my early-20s.

I asked my dealer whether there's any VW rear speaker upgrade available, and he says there is not. So unless they come out with something further down the line, we will be relying on 3rd party options if we do want to upgrade the sound.
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.3 Worst Edition & Tesla M3 LR
Joined
·
6,685 Posts
I’ve always found listening to music and being in a car with the associated road noise etc to be a mixed experience, I listen mainly to spoken word radio or podcasts etc.

Mainly for that reason I’m finding the front 5 speaker system fine, but I do agree it can’t have saved much money omitting rear speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
...it can’t have saved much money omitting rear speakers.
It's not always about saving money. Sometimes they use this kind of thing to create some differentiation between the models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It's not always about saving money. Sometimes they use this kind of thing to create some differentiation between the models.
yeah, but it’s a weird thing to differentiate on seeing as rear speakers are standard nowadays on most (all?) cars. Leaving a subwoofer out of lower trim specs is fine, but no rear speakers at all is unusual.
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.3 Worst Edition & Tesla M3 LR
Joined
·
6,685 Posts
It's not always about saving money. Sometimes they use this kind of thing to create some differentiation between the models.
Yes, agreed, but to leave it off your first edition of something seems odd, unless you’re already selling at a loss.

My somewhat tongue in cheek signature alludes to that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
I too was annoyed about the lack of rear speakers but I honesty cannot be arsed to spend time and more money adding rear speakers to my car. My kids clearly don't miss them and adding non-standard items to a car will no doubt be a weapon VW can use against you for future warranty claims, so for me it's not worth the hassle.

I still only have 500 miles on my two month old car so the speakers still need to bed in a bit but I have found that Spotify for some reason sounds much better than hi-res flac files played through a usb stick, so maybe it's not all about the amount of speakers in the car but your source too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,335 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I too was annoyed about the lack of rear speakers but I honesty cannot be arsed to spend time and more money adding rear speakers to my car. My kids clearly don't miss them and adding non-standard items to a car will no doubt be a weapon VW can use against you for future warranty claims, so for me it's not worth the hassle.

I still only have 500 miles on my two month old car so the speakers still need to bed in a bit but I have found that Spotify for some reason sounds much better than hi-res flac files played through a usb stick, so maybe it's not all about the amount of speakers in the car but your source too.
I think I just miss that sensation of having the sound come from all around me, like you get with headphones. But then again, my home audio speaker system isn’t surround sound either and I think that sounds great. Maybe I just have to get used to it.

I guess it just sounds at the moment like a car that has a good audio system but that you’ve set the speaker fade to be entirely to the front because, I guess, effectively that’s what it is. You’d never actually set the fade like that in a car normally, so it’s hard to think of it as being anything other than a bad thing. I guess no car is perfect though, maybe I’ll learn to live with it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Haha... tempting! :LOL: I honestly can't believe VW is making us think of solutions to add rear speakers to a £30,000+ car in the first place. How much money can they possibly have saved, considering economies of scale, by omitting them? I admit the sound is better than you'd imagine a front-speaker only system to be, but it's still not acceptable on a car this expensive. This is the most money I've ever paid for a car, and it is also the worst stock sound system quality I've had on a car since I was in my early-20s.

I asked my dealer whether there's any VW rear speaker upgrade available, and he says there is not. So unless they come out with something further down the line, we will be relying on 3rd party options if we do want to upgrade the sound.
I’m convinced they’ll offer it as a retrofit kit a little down the line. These type of kits are never available at point of launch though as the assumption is new car buyers will have specced with the options they wanted - it’s really when models start having 2nd owners that this market kicks in. (Appreciate couldn’t spec options on 1st ed!)
 
  • Like
Reactions: loggamatt

·
Registered
ID3 1st & e-Golf
Joined
·
5,852 Posts
I'll be waiting until after market kits become available. The sound isn't that great so I can imagine adding rear speakers will help that much, apart from my daughter being able to hear the music when she's in the car. She's the one who likes music on the most but it's not that often she's in the car so it's rarely an issue. Uni runs will be about the only time, once she's able to go back.
 
1 - 20 of 188 Posts
Top