ID3 Style Pure Performance range-ometer untrustworthy

6792 Views 113 Replies 31 Participants Last post by Crypto_Kid, Jan 9, 2022

L-R-L

Discussion Starter · Jan 6, 2022

I bought my ID3 in May 2021 and took it home at the end of September. Max range as advertised is 217 miles, but the reality is simply nothing like it. I find the experience of driving the car stressful, as I can simply not believe what the range-ometer says. Take today - it’s 2.5degrees and a full charge only have me 161 miles (in eco mode). For every mile I drive it’s taking at least three off the range. So that 161 miles might only be 50 miles in reality. And that’s with the air con off!
So that put an end to me using the car for a relatively short 100 mile trip - I had to rent a petrol instead (because on top of the ID3’s lies, you can’t find a reliable charging station on the M11).
Honestly, I think this WLVT business is the next car scam. We had it with diesel emissions and now it’s battery range. 217 miles!? Try 100 just about in fair weather!
I feel I’ve been seriously conned into buying what turns out to be a very expensive car for a city runaround.

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L-R-L

Discussion Starter · #21 · Jan 6, 2022

Thank you everyone for your input! Much appreciated. I hadn’t appreciated just how much energy is used heating up the car, and most of my journeys are pretty short so I have rarely seen the gom give an accurate picture of the miles done va the range lost.

Joe298 said:
Mate, if you're legitimately crawling around at 20 mph, giving the car long enough to warm itself up and get up to speed and still only getting 160 miles showing and only getting a third of that, something is wrong with the car and it needs to go into service. How much mileage have you done in the car since september? What's the duration of the trips it's making?

mostly short trips, but driving an hour round trip on the school run. But I think my issue is not having done enough longer journeys to get a sense of it, and then having to do 110 miles with a very low full charge, which freaked me out. But thanks to you and everyone else on this thread I have a much better idea of what the car is doing, and what it should be capable of doing in this weather, so I’ll brave it next time. (My other fear, after reading around yesterday as well as checking out Zip-Zap, is the unreliability and unavailability of charging points, and the labyrinth of apps and charge cards and all that faff that comes with what should be a simple pit-stop).

Reactions: 1

L-R-L

Discussion Starter · #22 · Jan 6, 2022

Joe298 said:
Just for my own peace of mind, as a man saying he can only get 100miles out of his car, have you ever actually done a trip of 100 miles in it? Or even 50 miles?

Because it sounds like you’re mostly using the car for sub-10 minute trips to the shop and that’s now made you too scared to take the car anywhere and actually find out how far it will go because you think the consumption is going to stay the same and you’ll be left crying at the side of the M11.

I hope it’s not. I hope you have made a decent, sensible effort. But it’s more and more sounding like you haven’t, and if you haven’t I really think you might be an absolute flute.

Sorry for balking at taking a car saying it’ll only stretch to 161 miles on a full charge on a 110 mile journey complete with family, never having done remotely that far in the car before even in fair weather. Yes, I feared we wouldn’t make it.

L-R-L

Discussion Starter · #23 · Jan 6, 2022

L-R-L said:
Sorry for balking at taking a car saying it’ll only stretch to 161 miles on a full charge on a 110 mile journey complete with family, never having done remotely that far in the car before even in fair weather. Yes, I feared we wouldn’t make it.

Most trips are 25mins - call it an hour there and back. I did a 40 mile round trip two days ago and it went from 195 to 97 miles on the gom.

L-R-L

Discussion Starter · #24 · Jan 6, 2022

CoalPorter said:
Well I guess you could (touch the Clima button for options), but honestly, I wouldn’t. Once you get to the “steady state” of about 1kW consumption, my feeling is that it just isn’t worth it - it’s only taking away about 3 or 4 miles from your range every hour.

Ah, well that is one less thing to stress about.
These cars are complex things compared to a petrol!

L-R-L

Discussion Starter · #25 · Jan 6, 2022

Well, thank you everyone. The weather on Saturday promises to be warmer, so perhaps I’ll brave it. I just really didn’t want to have to stop on a 110 mile journey (I can charge at the other end).
I have learned a lot from this and will spend the next month taking readings from the school run which at 25mins will give me the best sense of what’s going on in mi/kWh/h terms, but clearly those first 10mins are exactly the ones not to pay attention to as the car heats up, and it’s the overall picture which matters. I wish I’d had any longer journeys before now to work off, but I hope you understand how a city experience does not give one much confidence when it comes to suddenly doing a long journey! Hence I turned to the forums, and thank you all for your wisdom and knowledge.
Now to take the plunge…

Reactions: 1

Briggo

· #26 · Jan 6, 2022

L-R-L said:
But noted re the heater using a lot in the first 10mins - I wasn’t in the car long enough yesterday or today to see if it would settle.
Overall, I think it’s just plain wrong that such a car cannot comfortably do 100miles in any weather. Does the range decrease in getting suggest a battery issue? Even in the best weather, as a city runaround it’s only done 100 miles from 100% to 20%.

Are you basing your judgement on just short journeys then as thats what it sounds like rather than actually doing long journeys? In cold temperatures the battery heating currently uses a lot of juice, so for short journeys it appears you have really low range. Once that heaters done its job the m/kwh improves markedly.

Edit - seems you've realised with the other posts.

L-R-L

Discussion Starter · #27 · Jan 6, 2022

CoalPorter said:
This is showing you just why short journeys in the cold will return such low efficiency figures - the car is spending a lot of energy warming itself up.

For comparison, I made a round trip journey of 60 miles yesterday, finishing up with an average consumption of 3.4miles/kWh (cross country motoring).

The day before, I left home with an 80% charge, range estimated at 180 miles. One mile on (up a long steep climb), it was down to 140. A further mile (on the flat) and it was back over 170. Don’t read too much into the early part of a journey.

…which is much closer to what you will see whenever you stop on a longer journey (for lights etc).

EDIT: I hope you will stick with it. My experience suggests at this time of year 3-3.5 miles/kWh on a good run, comfortably over 4 in summer.

You’ve been so helpful. Thank you so much.

L-R-L

Discussion Starter · #28 · Jan 6, 2022

Briggo said:
Are you basing your judgement on just short journeys then as thats what it sounds like rather than actually doing long journeys? In cold temperatures the battery heating currently uses a lot of juice, so for short journeys it appears you have really low range. Once that heaters done its job the m/kwh improves markedly.

Edit - seems you've realised with the other posts.

I’ve never done a long enough trip to see, hence the lack of confidence based on the suggested range of 161 miles at 100%.

Paul-H

· #29 · Jan 6, 2022

L-R-L said:
I think (!) mine is a 48kwh but it could be 45kwh.

not to confuse things further but it’s both. The battery is 48kwh with a useable capacity of 45, I think mine is 62 but useable 58. A bit like how hard drives and camera sensors have a little bit that doesn’t get used, not sure why. Electronics is witchcraft 😆

Jeremy Harris

· #30 · Jan 6, 2022

L-R-L said:
I bought my ID3 in May 2021 and took it home at the end of September. Max range as advertised is 217 miles, but the reality is simply nothing like it. I find the experience of driving the car stressful, as I can simply not believe what the range-ometer says. Take today - it’s 2.5degrees and a full charge only have me 161 miles (in eco mode). For every mile I drive it’s taking at least three off the range. So that 161 miles might only be 50 miles in reality. And that’s with the air con off!
So that put an end to me using the car for a relatively short 100 mile trip - I had to rent a petrol instead (because on top of the ID3’s lies, you can’t find a reliable charging station on the M11).
Honestly, I think this WLVT business is the next car scam. We had it with diesel emissions and now it’s battery range. 217 miles!? Try 100 just about in fair weather!
I feel I’ve been seriously conned into buying what turns out to be a very expensive car for a city runaround.

Ever looked at the range variation for any other car versus what's in the spec? My guess is that you probably haven't.

Take, for example, my old Toyota Prius. That is advertised as having a (extra-urban) range of 668 miles. That is a complete joke, the very best I ever managed to get out of that car was a range of only 607 miles and in winter that range dropped massively to only 506 miles. The thing lost over 160 miles of its advertised range in winter!!! Absolutely outrageous!!! What's more, my wife's Yaris was actually worse, that didn't get as close as the Prius to meeting its advertised range. You will find it's exactly the same for ever other car every sold - the specs never come close to reality.

PS: There is a very good reason that EV owners call the range pridiction in cars a Guess-o-meter (GOM). It's because, funnily enough, it always has to guess the range, as we have yet to invent a reliable crystal ball.

Briggo

· #31 · Jan 6, 2022

Jeremy Harris said:
Ever looked at the range variation for any other car versus what's in the spec? My guess is that you probably haven't.

Take, for example, my old Toyota Prius. That is advertised as having a (extra-urban) range of 668 miles. That is a complete joke, the very best I ever managed to get out of that car was a range of only 607 miles and in winter that range dropped massively to only 506 miles. The thing lost over 160 miles of its advertised range in winter!!! Absolutely outrageous!!! What's more, my wife's Yaris was actually worse, that didn't get as close as the Prius to meeting its advertised range. You will find it's exactly the same for ever other car every sold - the specs never come close to reality.

PS: There is a very good reason that EV owners call the range pridiction in cars a Guess-o-meter (GOM). It's because, funnily enough, it always has to guess the range, as we have yet to invent a reliable crystal ball.

ICE range meters work perfectly, you always get what it says when it's topped up. Don't know what the problem is.

Reactions: 4

phil-ev

· #32 · Jan 6, 2022 (Edited)

Looks like it's this 45kWh

WLTP Ratings (TEL) 217 miles
EVDB Real Range 170 miles

City - Cold Weather	165 mi
Highway - Cold Weather	120 mi
Combined - Cold Weather	140 mi

City - Mild Weather	250 mi
Highway - Mild Weather	155 mi
Combined - Mild Weather	195 mi

ev-database.uk

Volkswagen ID.3 Pure Performance

All details and specs of the Volkswagen ID.3 Pure Performance (2021-2022). Compare price, lease, real-world range and consumption of every electric vehicle.

ev-database.uk

So that's 2.6 - 3.6 miles per kWh in Winter

3.4 - 5.5 miles per kWh in Summer. Above 4.5 would need to be perfect conditions and just pootling around town.

If a journey is more than 60 miles away and its really cold / really bad conditions then schedule in a charge.

Decent conditions you should be good for 85 there and back without 😬

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Reactions: 1

JeffG

· #33 · Jan 6, 2022

L-R-L said:
Having been sat in the car for 5mins the kWh/h is now hovering at 1.5 while stationary.

What on earth is kWh/h? Other than kW.

6652

· #34 · Jan 6, 2022

JeffG said:
What on earth is kWh/h? Other than kW.

In defence of @L-R-L, kWh/h is exactly what the ID.3 reports when you’re stationery and the battery heating is in force after a cold start.

This was mine a few weeks ago, I commented on it at the time.

It’s another little bug VW need to squish. 👍🙂

Tire Wheel Car Vehicle Motor vehicle

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Reactions: 1

Smitten

· #35 · Jan 6, 2022

L-R-L said:
I bought my ID3 in May 2021 and took it home at the end of September. Max range as advertised is 217 miles, but the reality is simply nothing like it. I find the experience of driving the car stressful, as I can simply not believe what the range-ometer says. Take today - it’s 2.5degrees and a full charge only have me 161 miles (in eco mode). For every mile I drive it’s taking at least three off the range. So that 161 miles might only be 50 miles in reality. And that’s with the air con off!
So that put an end to me using the car for a relatively short 100 mile trip - I had to rent a petrol instead (because on top of the ID3’s lies, you can’t find a reliable charging station on the M11).
Honestly, I think this WLVT business is the next car scam. We had it with diesel emissions and now it’s battery range. 217 miles!? Try 100 just about in fair weather!
I feel I’ve been seriously conned into buying what turns out to be a very expensive car for a city runaround.

Not sure this can be accurate. We have an e208 which isn't a purpose built EV and only has a 50kW battery of which 45kW can be used. I can get 120 miles at 70mph in winter conditions and about 150 in summer with same sort of driving. It was only doing 3.3 miles/kWh today in 2 degrees but a full battery at that rate would still give around 148 miles but of course you seldom go from full to empty so 120 seems reasonable. I have heater set on 21 degrees C and aircon on auto. I think battery heating uses a fair chunk on the ID3 to begin with but if you are motorway driving it should soon get up to temperature. What speed do you drive on the motorway? What miles/kWh are you getting? You are better off knowing the miles per kWh for the trip and overall average so you can see the efficiency effect of your driving style and weather on range more easily.

FYI WLTP is done in ideal conditions and not even on a road. Reality is different. Roads are wet, there is wind, there is traffic and there are less than optimum conditions. Since when has any ICE given the mpg quoted in the literature anyway

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Reactions: 1

Jeremy Harris

· #36 · Jan 6, 2022

Smitten said:
FYI WLTP is done in ideal conditions and not even on a road. Reality is different. Roads are wet, there is wind, there is traffic and there are less than optimum conditions. Since when has any ICE given the mpg quoted in the literature anyway

Exactly. My last ICE car had a range that was over 160 miles less than the specified range in winter.

Reactions: 1

6652

· #37 · Jan 6, 2022

L-R-L said:
But I think my issue is not having done enough longer journeys to get a sense of it, and then having to do 110 miles with a very low full charge, which freaked me out. But thanks to you and everyone else on this thread I have a much better idea of what the car is doing, and what it should be capable of doing in this weather, so I’ll brave it next time. (My other fear, after reading around yesterday as well as checking out Zip-Zap, is the unreliability and unavailability of charging points, and the labyrinth of apps and charge cards and all that faff that comes with what should be a simple pit-stop).

I do pretty much only long journeys in my ID.3, and on fast A roads or Motorways.

I’ve had mine just over a year now, and so I’m in the second winter, and I’ve covered over 25k miles.

My long term average is currently 3.1 miles per kWh, so as a guide/reassurance for your useable 45kWh, and leaving a buffer, you should be good for 130 miles (42 kWh x 3.1) as long as you’re not blasting at over the speed limits.

Your 45 kWh battery and lower powered motor should also do a little better than mine which is the 58kWh 204 PS version.

It should easily do 110 miles anyway, just the battery heating at the start of any cold journey does suck some juice initially. VW are supposed to be making that less aggressive in a future software update.

Reactions: 1

JeffG

· #38 · Jan 6, 2022

Tooks said:
In defence of @L-R-L, kWh/h is exactly what the ID.3 reports when you’re stationery and the battery heating is in force after a cold start.

That is weird! I can sort of understand that it is trying to show the rate at which the battery capacity is depleted, but not very scientific!

Reactions: 1

motmot

· #39 · Jan 6, 2022

To heat the battery (when it’s below 8 degrees) can easily use up 2.5-3kwh. That’s an easy 5%+ of your battery. Of course once warm it doesn’t need heating unless you stop for a few hours.

yesterday - round trip to Bolton, used 25% there, 12% back (it’s also a bit downhill on the way back). Until the sw upgrade the ‘over protective’ battery heating will chew up disproportionately large amounts of cold weather range.

Reactions: 1

motmot

· #40 · Jan 6, 2022

motmot said:
To heat the battery (when it’s below 8 degrees) can easily use up 2.5-3kwh. That’s an easy 5%+ of your battery. Of course once warm it doesn’t need heating unless you stop for a few hours.

yesterday - round trip to Bolton, used 25% there, 12% back (it’s also a bit downhill on the way back). Until the sw upgrade the ‘over protective’ battery heating will chew up disproportionately large amounts of cold weather range.

(That’s 8-10kw for 15 min)

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