@L-R-L Any idea how many miles per KWh are you getting for your driving style? For example, I get 3.6 miles on my leaf whereas my wife only managed 2.8 initially. We then went for a drive together and discussed things like when to use epedal (regen braking) vs coasting, how to use the heater etc after which she improved her average to 3.1. Unlike ICE, EV cars require planning and careful driving.
ID3 Style Pure Performance range-ometer untrustworthy
I bought my ID3 in May 2021 and took it home at the end of September. Max range as advertised is 217 miles, but the reality is simply nothing like it. I find the experience of driving the car stressful, as I can simply not believe what the range-ometer says. Take today - it’s 2.5degrees and a full charge only have me 161 miles (in eco mode). For every mile I drive it’s taking at least three off the range. So that 161 miles might only be 50 miles in reality. And that’s with the air con off!
So that put an end to me using the car for a relatively short 100 mile trip - I had to rent a petrol instead (because on top of the ID3’s lies, you can’t find a reliable charging station on the M11).
Honestly, I think this WLVT business is the next car scam. We had it with diesel emissions and now it’s battery range. 217 miles!? Try 100 just about in fair weather!
I feel I’ve been seriously conned into buying what turns out to be a very expensive car for a city runaround.
So that put an end to me using the car for a relatively short 100 mile trip - I had to rent a petrol instead (because on top of the ID3’s lies, you can’t find a reliable charging station on the M11).
Honestly, I think this WLVT business is the next car scam. We had it with diesel emissions and now it’s battery range. 217 miles!? Try 100 just about in fair weather!
I feel I’ve been seriously conned into buying what turns out to be a very expensive car for a city runaround.
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Is it that bad, though? The car is taking x kW of power at any given time, but for users it may be more useful to know how much of the energy will be taken in each “unit” of time… surely for that purpose kWh/h is a better unit than J/sThat is weird! I can sort of understand that it is trying to show the rate at which the battery capacity is depleted, but not very scientific!
Look, just take the plunge, solo, to put your mind at rest. I have a new Tesla M3 LR , 1 month old and after 1250 miles it is average 3.5m/kwh since 4tn December. So with a 75kwh battery i have a rough range of 263 miles , in winter, and that will be doing 70mph where i can.Well, thank you everyone. The weather on Saturday promises to be warmer, so perhaps I’ll brave it. I just really didn’t want to have to stop on a 110 mile journey (I can charge at the other end).
I have learned a lot from this and will spend the next month taking readings from the school run which at 25mins will give me the best sense of what’s going on in mi/kWh/h terms, but clearly those first 10mins are exactly the ones not to pay attention to as the car heats up, and it’s the overall picture which matters. I wish I’d had any longer journeys before now to work off, but I hope you understand how a city experience does not give one much confidence when it comes to suddenly doing a long journey! Hence I turned to the forums, and thank you all for your wisdom and knowledge.
Now to take the plunge…
Now i did a little experiment on the A5 last week, i got up to 90mph, set cruise and reset the trip meter. Drove 6 miles and the average consumption? 600wh/mile , which is 1.7m/kwh. So i could in theory leave home with 100% SOC, immediately get to 90mph in 7 seconds and could stay at that speed and go 128 miles before stopping with and exhausted battery.
My advice is do a comfortable solo 70mph run up the M11 with climate set how you want it , 20 deg, on a cold day. Leave with 100% SOC pick a destination 100 miles away. and just drive at 70mph where possible. Keep going until you get to only 60% SOC left (40% battery used), then turn around asap at the next junction, and go home at the same speed. In theory you should roughly arrive home with 20% SOC left as a buffer , and would have covered XXX miles. Say 100.
Now you have a base. You can then try again, same journey, but go a little bit further out to 55% SOC (45% used) , then turn around, come home. Again, you should get home with 10% SOC left and now have covered XXX miles (Say 130).
The do it again with max speeds of 65mph and 60 mph, and see how much further you go. Once you have some data, you will have a good idea what you can do in winter. So you can say, ok, leave with 100% , with the family in the car, want to do a 100 mile round like , it's freezing, If i stick to 60 max, or 70m there, and 60 back, I can easily do the whole trip no issues without stopping and should get home with at least 10% SOC as a buffer.
Just my advice. Knowledge is power, and simple range experiiments alone will give you confidence.
It looks like your confidence has definitely been knocked by just driving short distances. If I was you I would plan a long distance trip making sure you can stop every 50 miles or so, just in case you need to top up, the GOM just might need a bit of settling in. Once your confidence builds you’ll then find you can stretch to maybe 100 miles between potential charge stops.
Regarding cabin heat, bare in mind heater consumption will be at its highest for the first 10 - 15 mins if you drive, once the cabin reaches temperature consumption will fall therefore showing an increased figure on the GOM.
Regarding cabin heat, bare in mind heater consumption will be at its highest for the first 10 - 15 mins if you drive, once the cabin reaches temperature consumption will fall therefore showing an increased figure on the GOM.
Its not a bug.It’s another little bug VW need to squish. 👍🙂
Its showing instantaneous consumption, however, since your not moving, instead of energy against distance, its showing energy against time.
Some petrol cars do the same thing, and switch from mpg to gallons per hour when stationary.
Interesting view, and makes some sense.Its not a bug.
Its showing instantaneous consumption, however, since your not moving, instead of energy against distance, its showing energy against time.
Some petrol cars do the same thing, and switch from mpg to gallons per hour when stationary.
Most people seem to find it an odd measure though, including our old friend Tesla Bjorn, amongst others.
OP; to put things into context, imagine you have a petrol car with one gallon of fuel in the tank. If you start it from cold, and drive to the shop and back 5 miles total, you might well burn thru that gallon of fuel in only 3 or 4 trips. Now imagine your driving along the motorway, in the same petrol car with 1 gallon of fuel in the tank. You can now probably do 40miles or so on that same gallon of fuel.
What your seeing here isnt any different to a petrol car. Cold starts and warmup hurt both vehicles. The difference is in summer when things are much milder, the EV's warmup penalty drops away to nothing, whereas the petrol cars would continue.
What your seeing here isnt any different to a petrol car. Cold starts and warmup hurt both vehicles. The difference is in summer when things are much milder, the EV's warmup penalty drops away to nothing, whereas the petrol cars would continue.
The ID3s battery heater certainly looks overly aggressive and wasteful which seems to be the source of most of the trouble in this post. Is there such a need to switch on the battery heater at relatively "mild" temperatures? It's a huge penalty on short trips, which is where an EV should really excel.
Other EVs don't do this, my Ioniq 38 doesn't, granted it does restrict power by about 20-25% when the temperatures approach zero. But I'd rather that than it waste energy just heating a battery pack up.
Other EVs don't do this, my Ioniq 38 doesn't, granted it does restrict power by about 20-25% when the temperatures approach zero. But I'd rather that than it waste energy just heating a battery pack up.
Apparently there's going to be a "service recall" and adjustment of this on older ID3s - it's something VW are aware of and are tweaking. Although apparently we have to wait until Spring for it...The ID3s battery heater certainly looks overly aggressive and wasteful which seems to be the source of most of the trouble in this post. Is there such a need to switch on the battery heater at relatively "mild" temperatures? It's a huge penalty on short trips, which is where an EV should really excel.
Other EVs don't do this, my Ioniq 38 doesn't, granted it does restrict power by about 20-25% when the temperatures approach zero. But I'd rather that than it waste energy just heating a battery pack up.
I think all EVs with a liquid cooled battery do it to a greater or lesser extent, and certainly all the other MEB platform EVs do it as well.The ID3s battery heater certainly looks overly aggressive and wasteful which seems to be the source of most of the trouble in this post. Is there such a need to switch on the battery heater at relatively "mild" temperatures? It's a huge penalty on short trips, which is where an EV should really excel.
Other EVs don't do this, my Ioniq 38 doesn't, granted it does restrict power by about 20-25% when the temperatures approach zero. But I'd rather that than it waste energy just heating a battery pack up.
Fortunately, short cold journeys are where it matters least in terms of range, but some object to the cost, and it clearly can introduce ‘start of journey anxiety’ too!
VW are supposed to be tweaking the battery warming process, but not removing it, so it seems it was a design decision and probably done for battery longevity reasons and to enable full power and max regen as early in a journey as possible?
Edit: see others have covered already. OP - would you mind posting in here as you try things out and your findings, and whether that helps with your range anxiety?
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You might get 161 miles in the cold for an entire journey - after initial hump warming the car it should settle down and over the entire trip the consumption should be around 3-4mile/kWh
but you won’t get 161 miles if you do lots of 2 mile trips into town - that’ll crater the efficiency as you’re using the entire battery in the least efficiency mode all the time
try not to use the G and try not to think of the range in miles being real or not. Don’t know if the ID3 can show % but that can help with confidence. Do a longish trip and see how the % goes down. Eg in my model3 SR+ it’s roughly 10% = 20 miles if I’m doing a long trip. But maybe half that if I’m just popping into town on multiple short hops
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You might get 161 miles in the cold for an entire journey - after initial hump warming the car it should settle down and over the entire trip the consumption should be around 3-4mile/kWh
but you won’t get 161 miles if you do lots of 2 mile trips into town - that’ll crater the efficiency as you’re using the entire battery in the least efficiency mode all the time
try not to use the G and try not to think of the range in miles being real or not. Don’t know if the ID3 can show % but that can help with confidence. Do a longish trip and see how the % goes down. Eg in my model3 SR+ it’s roughly 10% = 20 miles if I’m doing a long trip. But maybe half that if I’m just popping into town on multiple short hops
I'd do a continuous 50 mile journey or so to get an idea of what it's like. It should be able to do that easily from full. See how much battery is left when you get back. It will give you a more realistic idea of that it does on longer journeys.
I’ve wondered if the ID3’s BMS has kicked in a couple of times on motorways driving at 2-4degrees when it’s started raining hard - and it’s quite likely the pack is getting doused in lots of near freezing water… I’ve noticed consumption plumet then - more so (anecdotally) than rain in summer.I think all EVs with a liquid cooled battery do it to a greater or lesser extent, and certainly all the other MEB platform EVs do it as well.
Fortunately, short cold journeys are where it matters least in terms of range, but some object to the cost, and it clearly can introduce ‘start of journey anxiety’ too!
VW are supposed to be tweaking the battery warming process, but not removing it, so it seems it was a design decision and probably done for battery longevity reasons and to enable full power and max regen as early in a journey as possible?
might be the battery dropping below the threshold (8 degrees?) despite running/drawing current…
Next time I’ll stick my OBD dongle in and log it.
As someone else has already mentioned, I'd argue this is easier for the average punter to understand. They know the battery is "filled" with kWh, akin to litres of petrol, so it makes sense to know that 0.5kWh of that capacity is being drained just by being stationary for an hourThat is weird! I can sort of understand that it is trying to show the rate at which the battery capacity is depleted, but not very scientific!
Is it bad for the battery to run cold? Or mainly a question of regen and power availability? Because if I get in when cold it still lets me drive - just gives less regen
I’d be ok to have a ‘cold eco’ mode button that tells the car not to bother hearing the battery as I’ll be stopping in 15 minutes anyway - and if that means less power it’s ok
I’d be ok to have a ‘cold eco’ mode button that tells the car not to bother hearing the battery as I’ll be stopping in 15 minutes anyway - and if that means less power it’s ok
I think you could be right, I got something similar on my last journey North on Tuesday evening.I’ve wondered if the ID3’s BMS has kicked in a couple of times on motorways driving at 2-4degrees when it’s started raining hard - and it’s quite likely the pack is getting doused in lots of near freezing water… I’ve noticed consumption plumet then - more so (anecdotally) than rain in summer.
might be the battery dropping below the threshold (8 degrees?) despite running/drawing current…
Next time I’ll stick my OBD dongle in and log it.
The last 15% of my pack disappeared much more quickly than consumption had been suggesting to that point, possibly some vdroop or something, but consumption did seem to spike just from looking at the screen. I was coming down the other side of the Pennines after nearly 3 hours of driving and it was -4c with light drizzle.
One of the members on here in Scandinavia somewhere mentioned he’d seen battery heating kick in again during a very cold long journey.
My Kona has an option for "Winter Mode" which affects if the battery is heated or not. However, despite having enabled it, I've yet to see it use any energy on the infotainment page which shows instantaneous usage for all systems even on cold days. Perhaps 0ºC is the trigger point below which it will heat the battery.Is it bad for the battery to run cold? Or mainly a question of regen and power availability? Because if I get in when cold it still lets me drive - just gives less regen
I’d be ok to have a ‘cold eco’ mode button that tells the car not to bother hearing the battery as I’ll be stopping in 15 minutes anyway - and if that means less power it’s ok
Ah, yes - I forgot about the total vs usable thing.not to confuse things further but it’s both. The battery is 48kwh with a useable capacity of 45, I think mine is 62 but useable 58. A bit like how hard drives and camera sensors have a little bit that doesn’t get used, not sure why. Electronics is witchcraft 😆
👍
Someone above mentioned the ID3 48kwh should be able to do 174 at best but it’s cold so it will be less. I feel a bit more confident in being able to do 110 mi provided I go no more than 70mph (it’s going to feel irritatingly slow, though!).Not sure this can be accurate. We have an e208 which isn't a purpose built EV and only has a 50kW battery of which 45kW can be used. I can get 120 miles at 70mph in winter conditions and about 150 in summer with same sort of driving. It was only doing 3.3 miles/kWh today in 2 degrees but a full battery at that rate would still give around 148 miles but of course you seldom go from full to empty so 120 seems reasonable. I have heater set on 21 degrees C and aircon on auto. I think battery heating uses a fair chunk on the ID3 to begin with but if you are motorway driving it should soon get up to temperature. What speed do you drive on the motorway? What miles/kWh are you getting? You are better off knowing the miles per kWh for the trip and overall average so you can see the efficiency effect of your driving style and weather on range more easily.
FYI WLTP is done in ideal conditions and not even on a road. Reality is different. Roads are wet, there is wind, there is traffic and there are less than optimum conditions. Since when has any ICE given the mpg quoted in the literature anyway
You could be on to something there - I’ve noticed I’ve less regen in cold weather too.Is it bad for the battery to run cold? Or mainly a question of regen and power availability? Because if I get in when cold it still lets me drive - just gives less regen
I’d be ok to have a ‘cold eco’ mode button that tells the car not to bother hearing the battery as I’ll be stopping in 15 minutes anyway - and if that means less power it’s ok
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