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The difference in the leasing costs are not so great though. Probably on the basis of much higher depreciation on the ZS.
Probably though leasing has lost some shine since EV 2nd hand values have shot up.

My 69-plate ZS Excite with 26k miles is still around £17,500 selling to Cazoo.
 

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Probably though leasing has lost some shine since EV 2nd hand values have shot up.

My 69-plate ZS Excite with 26k miles is still around £17,500 selling to Cazoo.
Yes my M3 is worth basically the same as what I bought it for over 2 years ago!
 

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The Megane E-tech is getting good reviews as a drivers car but the top of the range EV60 with 130 kw DC charging might cost more than an ID3 time will tell when prices are release in 9 months time.

Looks like I will be driving an old skool Zoe ZE40 for another year 🙂
 

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ID3 1st Edition in Glacier White
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I think there is still a large latent preference, trust in Europe for established mainstream manufacturers. I think the Chinese will find it hard to penetrate that, especially given the perception of Chinese goods and the political context.
More controversially, I even think Tesla will gradually lose market share to ‘legacy’ manufacturers as EVs become more mainstream. I think Tesla is viewed as more or less a sports car manufacturer and will be increasingly viewed as ‘niche’.
But the clock is ticking and if the legacy, established manufacturers keep slowly producing ugly, expensive, underwhelming EV designs they may screw up their historic advantages.
 

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I think there is still a large latent preference, trust in Europe for established mainstream manufacturers. I think the Chinese will find it hard to penetrate that, especially given the perception of Chinese goods and the political context.
More controversially, I even think Tesla will gradually lose market share to ‘legacy’ manufacturers as EVs become more mainstream. I think Tesla is viewed as more or less a sports car manufacturer and will be increasingly viewed as ‘niche’.
But the clock is ticking and if the legacy, established manufacturers keep slowly producing ugly, expensive, underwhelming EV designs they may screw up their historic advantages.
MG perhaps more than the other Chinese brands are is a solid position to actually supply cars into 2022 - they make their own semiconductors so are far less exposed to the current shortage.

I don't really care as long as EVs become the norm for family transport!
 

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EV residuals are mad at the moment, my ID.3 is worth more according to a motorway quote than I paid for it 12 months and 23k miles ago.

Ok, I purchased it with a good discount, but it’s unprecedented.
 

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VW ID.3 1st Edition & Tesla M3 LR
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I think there is still a large latent preference, trust in Europe for established mainstream manufacturers. I think the Chinese will find it hard to penetrate that, especially given the perception of Chinese goods and the political context.
More controversially, I even think Tesla will gradually lose market share to ‘legacy’ manufacturers as EVs become more mainstream. I think Tesla is viewed as more or less a sports car manufacturer and will be increasingly viewed as ‘niche’.
But the clock is ticking and if the legacy, established manufacturers keep slowly producing ugly, expensive, underwhelming EV designs they may screw up their historic advantages.
It will be interesting to see where it all is in a couple of years time, now that we can start to compare EVs sector by sector rather than everything versus a Tesla or anything else that’s electric.

Interestingly, a couple of EV sceptics at work are very interested in the BMW i4, they’re not that interested in the absolute numbers versus a Tesla, but for them their perception is reality, the BMW badge is still a draw, and I’m sure they’re not alone.

Getting back to the ID.3, it is a car that after a difficult birth is maturing nicely. VW seem to be committed to improving it too, with the software updates and the model year updates.

I’m not sure what competes with it yet really, other than other MEB platform cars, but it’s a good time to be interested in EVs with so many being released now.
 

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MG have learned that OTA updates are the dog's danglies so it is on the new ZS LR, especially after a couple of software update issues with the current model - do VW have OTA as well?
 

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MG have learned that OTA updates are the dog's danglies so it is on the new ZS LR, especially after a couple of software update issues with the current model - do VW have OTA as well?
They do yes, but seems an odd implementation in terms of conditions that need to be met.

I’ve had no problems personally, but a few have reported it being a slow clunky process though should be refined/smoothed out for the future.
 

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The MG is a worthy mention. Just not my cup of tea as a brand.
I didn't like the original ZS with low rent dashboard, etc. However, the facelift has definitely improved it substantially and I will definitely consider when the Zoe lease ends.

I tend to prefer Japanese brands (had Toyota, Mazda and Lexus in past) but there really isn't anything from them that would suit at present. I will be looking for spring 2023 so maybe things will change a bit by then?
 

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The Nissan Ariya might be worth a look but probably too large and expensive for my purposes. I guess up against the Toyota bz4x but cheaper.
Talk of a Renault 5 EV as well, sounds like a retro nostalgic car to me :0)
 

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Interestingly, a couple of EV sceptics at work are very interested in the BMW i4, they’re not that interested in the absolute numbers versus a Tesla, but for them their perception is reality, the BMW badge is still a draw, and I’m sure they’re not alone.
So how would these people feel about an iX3? It has the badge but is built outside the Fatherland like an increasing proportion of their products. Is China for a BMW too far when Austria, USA and Brazil are OK? No doubt they are happy with their iPhone.
The Ora-Cat is on a platform shared with BMW for the next Mini EV. Yes this doesn't mean that the rest of the design is BMW approved but the assumption that there's a huge difference is something that BMW marketing is going to have to work hard to sustain.
 

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So how would these people feel about an iX3? It has the badge but is built outside the Fatherland like an increasing proportion of their products. Is China for a BMW too far when Austria, USA and Brazil are OK? No doubt they are happy with their iPhone.
The Ora-Cat is on a platform shared with BMW for the next Mini EV. Yes this doesn't mean that the rest of the design is BMW approved but the assumption that there's a huge difference is something that BMW marketing is going to have to work hard to sustain.
You know as well as anybody that many people buy things with their hearts as well as their heads, particularly the motor car.

It’s not rational, but don’t pretend that brands don’t ‘work’, otherwise there wouldn’t be any.

Tesla appeals to as many people because of intangibles like the branding, which is presumably why so many forgive the cars shortcomings.

I’ve said before that I like VW cars, not because they’re technically amazing, but because many significant things in my life that involved cars had a VW or Audi badge on them. They’ve just been a part of my life, and I’ve enjoyed working on the many I’ve owned, there’s an unconscious emotional connection somewhere.

I think it will be a while before I have a T-shirt with an Ora Cat on it, to be fair.

Some people have a similar connection with BMW and their perception that they’re well engineered and built for ‘drivers’. It doesn’t matter whether that’s true or not, as long as it’s real to them.

I think things will change, of course, but SpeakEV is a bit of a bubble and whilst I don’t know the exact demographic it seems to be dominated by sometimes grumpy middle aged men. Out there in the real world maybe things will change faster.

Skoda have shed their previous brand image, thanks Jasper Carrot, but look how long it took.
 

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You know as well as anybody that many people buy things with their hearts as well as their heads, particularly the motor car.

It’s not rational, but don’t pretend that brands don’t ‘work’, otherwise there wouldn’t be any.

Tesla appeals to as many people because of intangibles like the branding, which is presumably why so many forgive the cars shortcomings.

I’ve said before that I like VW cars, not because they’re technically amazing, but because many significant things in my life that involved cars had a VW or Audi badge on them. They’ve just been a part of my life, and I’ve enjoyed working on the many I’ve owned, there’s an unconscious emotional connection somewhere.

I think it will be a while before I have a T-shirt with an Ora Cat on it, to be fair.

Some people have a similar connection with BMW and their perception that they’re well engineered and built for ‘drivers’. It doesn’t matter whether that’s true or not, as long as it’s real to them.

I think things will change, of course, but SpeakEV is a bit of a bubble and whilst I don’t know the exact demographic it seems to be dominated by sometimes grumpy middle aged men. Out there in the real world maybe things will change faster.

Skoda have shed their previous brand image, thanks Jasper Carrot, but look how long it took.
Good post. Although Skoda haven’t quite shed their image for me (and I suspect quite a few who know who Jasper Carrot is!)
I think there is a reasonable window up to 2030 for ‘mainstream established’ car manufacturers to ‘get EV’s right’ in terms of design and within the constraints of batteries. They really need to move away from ‘space ship’ or wacky designs, make them fit for purpose in terms of size and rapidly get the prices down [I realise there are scale issues]. So far I think their offerings have been pretty poor.
If that carries on for the next 4 or 5 years, new boys and of course Tesla may grab a sizeable chunk of the market.
 

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The tiny boot will rule it out for a lot of people - certainly me. It is much smaller than the boot in the Zoe and I'd like something bigger next!
True, but it seems like everyone without an EV bangs on about being able to drive for 8 hours straight without stopping, so the range will do something for that, in conjunction with strong pricing.

I'm sure the boot space will be the next excuse to keep ICE production going, though. It'll be a succession of nonsensical reasons.


What's annoying is that the brands that could break out into strong EV competitors start off with flirting strongly styled ideas like these (Ssangyong)



Then they actually try and sell stuff that looks like it is a Proton from 20 years ago
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
This is precisely why I choose an ID3. There is little to no competition (or emerging competition) in the 260 mile range, golf sized, £30k car market (with some added benefits from it being a purpose built EV).
I think you are right that eNiro2 long range and Kona are probably the nearest, but both are a bit dated).
it’s a bug bear to me that many new EV designs are simply too big and too expensive, as well as being ugly IMO. I understand Toyota will initially go for a RAV4 sized car as well.
Unless something comes out the woodwork I’ll likely get another ID3 after 3 years…
I tend to agree. the ID3 has hit the sweet spot. Very practical hatchback, small enough for cities, yet very good driver on the open road/motorways. Very spacious by clever design. With the internal space it's actually more of an MPV (remember them) and reminds me of a previous car I owned (and liked) the VW Golf Sportsvan. Also for those of us of a certain age you easily step into an ID3 whereas in a saloon/regular hatchback car you tend to step down (I'm thinking of my wife's Audi A1) and you tend to step up/climb into an SUV. A lot of us I think are disappointed not to see a lot more EVs out there. The current major issue is cost - due to the lack of volume scale (and in house battery manufacture development and scale costs) and the lack of direct competitors. When will Audi A3 h/b size EV / Ford Focus type EV/ Toyota Corolla type EV/Skoda Octavia type EV appear on the market - 2024/2025?
 
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