Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF30
Joined
·
7,458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF30
Joined
·
7,458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A Tesla Powerwall is £5,400 for the unit and about £8k installed. That is for 14kWh of usable storage.
That's besides the point. Plug a 60kWh Leaf into it and you've got a massive battery bank...
Which certainly makes it attractive, and I am not aware of new V2G units available below the price of this one. What support would be available from Indra for an "out of warranty second user" product I don't know.

It potentially allows a car with a 3.6kW AC on-board charger to run at 6kW, but I see that as a very minor benefit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,674 Posts
Which certainly makes it attractive, and I am not aware of new V2G units available below the price of this one. What support would be available from Indra for an "out of warranty second user" product I don't know.

It potentially allows a car with a 3.6kW AC on-board charger to run at 6kW, but I see that as a very minor benefit.
Given the nature of V2X trials so far, I expect the support contract would be with OVO, and so a retail customer would have zero return to the manufacturer.

Also, I understood these chargers originally cost the user £1 as part of the trial. So there's a handy profit here if sold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,674 Posts
It'd be interesting for a teardown to see how they chose to implement i, though not at £3k! But V2G always struck me as too expensive for most consumers, unless the hardware ends up built into the car's OBC (I'd imagine it's more expensive than a standard AC charger, but probably not £6,800 or whatever one of these units are when new.)
 

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF30
Joined
·
7,458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
There is also the question of software - I presume that this is not the usual Kaluza implementation so you may end up with a unit that you cannot control. It all depends on Ovo and Indra, but as the latter are now B2B focussed I suspect that they will not want to know in this case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,674 Posts
It'd be interesting for a teardown to see how they chose to implement i, though not at £3k! But V2G always struck me as too expensive for most consumers, unless the hardware ends up built into the car's OBC (I'd imagine it's more expensive than a standard AC charger, but probably not £6,800 or whatever one of these units are when new.)
It's a hard one. Whilst it would be great if V2G chargers were similarly priced to the already outrageous pricing of home chargers that would be fantastic.

But if you consider a V2X charger is probably instead of a home storage set-up, then they could certainly charge a few thousand for it.

I wonder if the CCS standard will be any cheaper, if it ever materialises...
 

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF30
Joined
·
7,458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I wonder if the CCS standard will be any cheaper, if it ever materialises...
If being the operative word - will it ever arrive and will the manufacturers stick to it. If the experience with the CCS rapid charging is anything to go by ........
 

·
Registered
2018 Nissan Leaf 40kWh Tekna - love it
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
That's besides the point. Plug a 60kWh Leaf into it and you've got a massive battery bank...
Yes you would, but the point is that you would be doing this with the intention of saving money on your electricity bill.
 

·
Registered
Nissan LEAF30
Joined
·
7,458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Yes you would, but the point is that you would be doing this with the intention of saving money on your electricity bill.
Which you could a lot of the time. Most owners of cars with big battery packs rarely use the whole capacity, so have a "reserve" left over to use as storage most of the time. My typical total usage apart from charging cars is 25kWh/day and I rarely need to charge my current LEAF30 away from home. If "man Maths" convinced me to upgrade to a LEAF62 I'd have plenty to offset 100% of my daily usage apart from the rare occasions when I currently charge away from home. The current rates on Go (about 20p/kWh) make the "man Maths" work, almost. :oops:
 

·
Registered
Leaf 30kWh, HS PHEV
Joined
·
2,867 Posts
I always wanted one and did try to get onto one of the trials.. If even tried ways that might not be worth mentioning but yeah 3k is a lot of money.. the whole setup works with Kaluza and I wouldn't want to buy one without all parties in agreement
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
386 Posts
If you're just looking for ways of getting power out of a vehicle's battery pack, there's probably cheaper ways of doing it, but it's not a user-friendly or polished solution, or even safe for those who aren't power electronics engineers. Don't try this at home:

Connect ChaDeMo, stand clear, signal the car's PDU contactors to close via a microcontroller using CAN bus.
Ideally monitor state of charge with Chademo protocol.
Connect DC lines of Chademo to a suitable solar inverter (grid-tie or off-grid as required) that can take the voltage range from it's string input. Actually, don't go connecting live HVDC cables. You should have done that first.
Get microcontroller to open car's contactors again if SOC falls below a threshold.
Use existing car on-board charger to charge car when power is green / free / cheaper.

This almost certainly wouldn't pass any wiring regulations or even meet with DNO approval without a large amount of safety features (fuses, earthing, etc) that I haven't described here, but it would just about work. It might be possible to do something similar with CCS, but I have no idea what the vehicle's CCS protocol controllers would think of the vehicle's battery pack SOC going down when it was expecting it to charge ,and the vehicle may decide not to close the contactors if the SOC is already at a high enough level (fully charged). With CCS you may need to somehow spoof an input DC voltage during precharge that approximately matches the pack voltage, even if you only offer a very low current.

Safe, Cheap, Usable. Choose two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,361 Posts
Will this unit actually work for whoever buys it, though? I'm not familiar with it, but if it needs connectivity and an account to work, then isn't there a possibility that it may be worthless to whoever buys it?
 

·
Registered
2018 Nissan Leaf 40kWh Tekna - love it
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
Which you could a lot of the time. Most owners of cars with big battery packs rarely use the whole capacity, so have a "reserve" left over to use as storage most of the time. My typical total usage apart from charging cars is 25kWh/day and I rarely need to charge my current LEAF30 away from home. If "man Maths" convinced me to upgrade to a LEAF62 I'd have plenty to offset 100% of my daily usage apart from the rare occasions when I currently charge away from home. The current rates on Go (about 20p/kWh) make the "man Maths" work, almost. :oops:
I'd rather have the three grand and not cause my car battery to deteriorate.
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top