[Paul]

Not an expert, but with regards to the above concerns, see also "fair dealing"...

Knowing now they're not an actual "standards" organisation of some sort, it just seems very odd indeed, and how veiled and vague is the tone too?!

 

[Peter Adamson]

Speaking as someone who has no knowledge of building anything electrical, I was interested, and watched Kevin's "build your own EVSE video".

However I know that I'm not a sparky, and I would never actually build one myself (I also don't have an EV - but ignoring that for the moment).

The fact is, if I do decide to follow through with building something electrical based on someone elses video, it's obvious that I'm responsible for the safety side of things.

Who it part of this EVSE trades body anyway?

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Who it part of this EVSE trades body anyway?

"UK EVSE members include APT, Charge Point Services, Charging Solutions, Chargemaster, Charge Your Car, Elektromotive, Eveo, Rolec Services, POD Point and Siemens"

http://ukevse.org.uk/uk-evse/who-we-are/

 

[fenlander]

Though note that PodPoint are not listed elsewhere on the site, so presumably they were founder members but no longer are?

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

However, I am massively against this kind of action. That letter is a bully tactic and it takes no account of the fact that done properly, and with due consideration of the risks, there is nothing that should prevent home built EVSEs. It seems to completely ignore personal choice.

I completely agree with you and I will fight to ensure that people have the right to undertake safe DIY.

The EVSE Build day video was made by four highly educated people with ~100 years experience including high power electronics. The video contains multiple health and safety warnings and a recommendation that the finished item is tested by a certified electrician and checked on a regular basis. The EVSE in the video used hardware supplied by UK EVSE members Rolec and Siemens, together with parts from ITT, Phoenix Contact, and Mainpine. All parts are CE tested and comply with all necessary standards.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I'm not sure this post is appropriate for a chat room. I have a feeling that these formal letter are issued a certain stage where a 'case' is being developed. We don't have knowledge, or sight, of what has been written, or said before - so its foolish to comment.

You have been given full sight of the communications received and I will publish all relevant communication in the future. UK EVSE is a self appointed trade body which receives "secretariat support" from Cenex.

ZCW was asked to join UK EVSE but declined because it's membership would inevitably restrict the charities ability to campaign on important climate change issues.

I think it best to stay stumph!

I profoundly disagree and think it's important that EV drivers understand what's going on in this industry... how many people even knew about the existence of UK EVSE until yesterday? Or that such a trade body might want to restrict your ability to build an EVSE, adaptor, or even modify your car?

Personally, I think this has much more to do with the fact that Mainpine has recently released a EVSE protocol controller that you can buy for £79 + VAT

 

[Grant Thomas]

Mainpine has recently released a EVSE protocol controller that you can buy for £79 + VAT

Where? ;-)

 

[fenlander]

Please do keep us drivers informed as things progress.

If anyone ever doubts what stifles innovation it's things like this. People building prototypes in sheds is how everything in engineering starts out.

 

[Grant Thomas]

I'm baffled as to what legally can be done to stop people buying 3 components from Farnell / RS Components and stopping them from joining them together with cable. Maybe it's the EVSE Protocol Controller...and, as was alluded to earlier, some of the charging stations represented by UK EVSE use the same Mainpine manufacture EVSE Protocol Controller with their own badges on them.

Then there is OPEN EVSE in the states (LINK) using, again, commercially available components to build the brains of any charging station.

I'm going to be all leftfield again; how about UK EVSE produce a sticker or leaflet that could be issued with anyone buying such items stipulating that a thorough safety check by a Part P qualified electrician should be undertaken before connection to an electrical supply or electric car. Kind of exactly the same words used by @Kevin Sharpe in the EVSE Build Day Video

[Safety advice given at 30mins 44 seconds]

But there I go again, collaborative joined up thinking that helps everyone. Back to the legal threats and oppression.

 

[fenlander]

But think how bad it would be if people discovered those expensive EVSEs were just three off-the-shelf components in a box. What would that do to the valuation of your company with its special technology?

 

[Darren Griffin]

Playing devil's advocate here, the self build EVSE is hardly cheap is it? How much did it cost? Not a great deal cheaper than Vauxhall's EVSE although I appreciate it's a lot more useful.

 

[Grant Thomas]

Playing devil's advocate here, the self build EVSE is hardly cheap is it? How much did it cost? Not a great deal cheaper than Vauxhall's EVSE although I appreciate it's a lot more useful.

Hardly a comparison; Ampera EVSE charges at 10 Amps ; EVSE Build Day full 32 Amps (and can be modified to work at 7 Amps - 32 Amps). I'll defer to @Kevin Sharpe for pricing.

 

[Darren Griffin]

It's a valid comparison. I said I appreciate the self build is more useful, but let's not ignore the fact that it's far from a cheap solution.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Playing devil's advocate here, the self build EVSE is hardly cheap is it? How much did it cost?

I can't remember the exact prices at that time but iirc the 32A EPC + 32A Type 1 Cable kit was £149, Rolec RCBO £20, Siemens Contactor £20, Aluminium case with window £50, wire and bits and bobs £20... so roughly £239 + VAT (Retail).

Obviously, you can get less robust cases for £10 and cheaper RCBOs and Contactors.

This is a fully adjustable from 6A to 32A, repairable, and very rugged.

Not a great deal cheaper than Vauxhall's EVSE although I appreciate it's a lot more useful.

Given the failure rate on the vauxhall EVSE I know which version I'd rather have

If you wanted to build a 10A version then I guess shave 20% off the prices quoted.

 

[Darren Griffin]

What I don't understand about all this is, if Zero Carbon World is not a member of UK EVSE, what sanctions do they think they can impose?

 

[Ajl0ckwood]

If all components used with a DIY charging charging stations meet all required standards. Assembled by a competent person I do not see a problem in general.

I agree that ZCW/Mainpine need to issue a leaflet with the unit and ensure it is highlighted when it is being sold that a qualified electrician need to insure that the final installation is safe.

If you are making a portable DIY charging station again it need to be checked to see if it is safe and that it will require regular 'PAT' testing.

I also know that you can purchase EV control modules similar to the Mainpine one from 3 well known companies including at least one within UK EVSE.

There is also at least one within UK EVSE using re-branded Mainpine hardware.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

I am on my 2nd Vauxhall EVSE. There have been a lot of failures of the Vauxhall EVSEs.

I would build my own but I only have 16A chargers in the cars and so I have very little need for anything other than what I have already and having 2 EVs and 2 EVSEs even the failure of one shouldn't affect me.

However, both of mine came included with the cars. If I had, say, a Mk2 Leaf with 7kW charging and just a Type 2 cable from Nissan then I would build my own without doubt and if I had concerns about the safety then I'd just get it checked by a suitably qualified person first.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

What I don't understand about all this is, if Zero Carbon World is not a member of UK EVSE, what sanctions do they think they can impose?

Good point.

Their threat of further action implies that they consider that some law has perhaps been broken. I am pretty sure that it is not illegal in any way to build your own EVSE from CE approved parts any more than it is to build your own computer.

It will be interesting to see what they do next.

 

[Ajl0ckwood]

if I had concerns about the safety then I'd just get it checked by a suitably qualified person first.

But unfortunately due to the world we live in people need to be told to have it check providing a warning at point of sale and contained with the unit to check have it safety check must be a requirement

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

What I don't understand about all this is, if Zero Carbon World is not a member of UK EVSE, what sanctions do they think they can impose?

That's unclear from the letter and I've asked them to clarify exactly what laws they believe we have broken promoting DIY EVSE

I wonder if I should tell them that I'll be powering up my 0-300V 0-20A Glassman PSU in the workshop later today