Industry Attempting To Stop DIY EVSE

This has got me thinking, Kevin how hard would it be for ZCW to build a rapid charger?

(I think I know the answer to this)...

Peter Adamson said:

This has got me thinking, Kevin how hard would it be for ZCW to build a rapid charger?

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CHAdeMO is not that difficult but until a business case exists I can't see Mainpine doing it.

Here's what's involved - WARNING this video contains images of DIY chargers and 3D printed CHAdeMO connectors that may lead you to question the prices of commercial vendors... viewer discretion advised

OK - maybe I'm being stupid here!

What exactly is it that UK EVSE think that Zero Carbon World are doing that is "endorsing and recommending the manufacture of Do-It-Yourself (DIY) Electric Vehicle charging stations"?

Matt Beard said:

What exactly is it that UK EVSE think that Zero Carbon World are doing that is "endorsing and recommending the manufacture of Do-It-Yourself (DIY) Electric Vehicle charging stations"?

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When I asked for clarification they sent me the following link without comment;

http://www.myelifenow.com/2014/01/diy-evse-build-day-by-kevin-sharpe-from.html

So, beyond what it says in the letter I really don't know.

Kevin Sharpe said:

When I asked for clarification they sent me the following link without comment;

http://www.myelifenow.com/2014/01/diy-evse-build-day-by-kevin-sharpe-from.html

So, beyond what it says in the letter I really don't know.

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Well thanks for the video I can now go out and buy all the components I need. I don't need to get them from Mainpine I know I can get the cables from one member of UK EVSE and the controller from another.

Well done for endorsing DiY charging Mainpine and thanks UK EVSE for the parts (at a much greater cost).

Kevin Sharpe said:

When I asked for clarification they sent me the following link without comment;

http://www.myelifenow.com/2014/01/diy-evse-build-day-by-kevin-sharpe-from.html

So, beyond what it says in the letter I really don't know.

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That's not ZCW doing anything! You personally may be endorsing DIY building of EVSE units (with lots of suitable caveats) but ZCW are not doing so.

Aaand, even if it was, about 30 seconds in there's a safety message, and more to follow too!

It seems unlikely that they really do care about a handful of DIY people, or that there is much they can do about it.

I imagine the larger concern is the army of startup companies that could start producing EVSEs at very low cost once it becomes widely known just how simple they really are and demand starts to ramp up. None of these companies really have a decent barrier to entry or any significant intellectual property so they need to create a protection guild and lobby like crazy to maintain position.

Maintaining the veil of technology sophistication is an important part of that. Videos on the web that show you can build one in your garage in an afternoon really don't help at all.

Vauxhall charged me around £300 for my Type2 cable. It's probably about £10 worth of components - but it's exactly this sort of premium that UK EVSE seem to be desperate to protect.

I think you'll find it is a lot more than £10 Julian but I agree, the mark up will be high

Isn't it a bit of electrical cable + 2 plugs?

Julian Thomas said:

Isn't it a bit of electrical cable + 2 plugs?

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Yes, but even when buying in volume neither ourselves, the resellers, nor the manufacturers make very much money when selling a cable for £149

Remember this is a very low volume market today... even if every EV in the UK had a Type 2 cable I doubt you'd break even.

I think we're arguing on the same side of the debate here Kevin!

My point is that the cost of 2 plugs + a few metres of cable should be £10-ish wholesale. I can go to B&Q and buy electrical cable cheaply; I accept that Type 2 connectors are expensive, but I can't see any reason that they *should* be - they're not much more sophisticated than Commando plugs really, and they're a couple of quid retail (http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GW240slash16slash3P.html)

Julian Thomas said:

Isn't it a bit of electrical cable + 2 plugs?

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Try sourcing J1772 Type 1 and Type 2 plugs; even the poorest quaily Chinese ones are a pretty penny. The ITT 2nd gen ones are about £90. I had the same thought when I started my journey. Then bought the ZCW Cable, which in reality is an ITT Cannon cable with those rock solid 2nd gen connectors sold by Farnell ;-)

Julian Thomas said:

Isn't it a bit of electrical cable + 2 plugs?

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Not quite.

The electric cable is just cable, I agree, but it is multi-core with both data and power... not your run-of-the-mill 3-core!

The plugs are J1772 and Menekkes Type 2. Again not your run-of-the-mill 13A 3-pin!

I do accept that they shouldn't be anything like the price that these companies are charging but with low volume and specialist cable and plugs, they are always not going to be cheap

Grant Thomas said:

Where? ;-)

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Two resellers listed here... chasing mainpine sales for the rest

I just find it ridiculous, and a little bit desperate.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where it was tabled they actively chase a charity (that no longer sells products) and demand that they stop promoting an idea that is acceptable in every other area on electronics / technology.

Perhaps someone at OLEV has finally woken up and has realised they are being charged a £1000 a pop to install boxes of mostly fresh air and a few off the shelf bits on people's walls. And perhaps that they have spent millions of pounds of tax payers money creating an unreliable, sub standard, fragmented charging network that isn't fit for purpose.

Well, OK. Maybe not. But something has put the wind up them?

Paul_Churchley said:

Not quite.
The electric cable is just cable, I agree, but it is multi-core with both data and power... not your run-of-the-mill 3-core!
The plugs are J1772 and Menekkes Type 2. Again not your run-of-the-mill 13A 3-pin!
I do accept that they shouldn't be anything like the price that these companies are charging but with low volume and specialist cable and plugs, they are always not going to be cheap

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Its almost run of the mill Paul, the only thing that makes it not is that it is typically 3 core + a much smaller gauge for pilot signal. Your home 32A units will have 3x6mm and a small 0.7 mm pilot, you could use 5 core 6mm ho7 if you wanted although the jacket is not made of the same stuff so not as shiny, uv proof etc etc
I agree the plugs are the money, building an evse is very cheap except for the plugs.

Pod Point even sell used j1772's on ebay so they must be joking about there ukevse membership right !

I will build a DC Rapid this year thanks to open source , ukevse won't stop that for sure.

dod said:

Pod Point even sell used j1772's on ebay so they must be joking about there ukevse membership right !

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I am pretty sure they don't intend them to be used for DIY EVSEs... more for replacement of damaged cabled...

... ideal for replacing a damaged charging cable

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But I could be wrong