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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I am Simone.

I am part of an innovation project which is looking at developing an app that will help EV/Plug-in owners managing their car and in particular, introduce them to Vehicle-to-Grid technology (V2G)! (y)

We're in the early stages of developing the app, and we want inputS from real EV/Plug-in drivers to help us create an innovative, easy-to-use product that will help you get the best use out of your vehicle and help the grid to get a step closer to become a "smart grid".

We will be extremely grateful to everyone that could help us. The survey will take you only 10 minutes.

Thank you so much in advance!

EV/Plug-in user research

Best
Simone
 

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I can't see anything in your profile about what company you work for - I assume this is commercial? If som I'm sur ehe moderators would like to to append such info here.

Can you tell us anything more about yourself/this project? I know there are V2G trials going on already with Leafs, and that ChaDemo supports this function, but what's the position with CCS? Is there a new versio of that which will support V2G? If so, are you involved with the development of that? IMWTK. :)
 

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Oh right - so you are doing what Nissan an several others have been doing for the past 5 years?

Nice
 

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These requests for information and help for a bussiness, without proper introduction are really quite rude.
If you want our help to grow your bussiness, please make some effort to be polite with a good introduction and what you are doing with the data.

Wheres the "dont like" button ?
 

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es,
Do any current EVs have the capability to feed power out ?
Yes, the Leafs do. I believe that dates back to the 1st Leaf as well. But of course you need the charger to understand how to do that. I guess it will need something like those solar panel inverters to auto-sync with the grid etc, & you need the smarts to decide how much power, which way, when, what priority car .vs. grid, whether the spot price for leccy is enough to export your charge, billing systems, etc etc ad nauseam. Lots of scope for user-friendly apps, integrating with Nest/other domestic systems, ...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi,
Apologises for not giving more information about me and the organisation I work for!

I will try to make up for it now:

I work for an organisation called GenGame.

GenGame was created as a research project sponsored by one of the distribution network operator (DNO), Northern Powergrid.

The original project's goal was to evaluate how to best engage domestic customers with demand-side-response (DSRs) using gamification. You can find more information about the project + the outcomes here Welcome | Activating Community Engagement

Ace is now over, but thanks to the competencies developed in engaging domestic homeowners and gamification we are now working on three more research projects.

The one we are using the survey for is called: UK-South Korea Smart Energy Innovation Collaboration Competition and is sponsored by BEIS.

The goal of our project is to study the use of gamification (competitions, games and virtual rewards) and other methods to engage ULEV owners with V2G technology and incentivise behaviours such as the discharging/charging of their EV batteries to support the energy system.

So what we are testing at the moment is more the behavioural side of V2G, rather than the technology.
Btw, to the best of my knowledge, you are right when you say that currently, Chademo is the only one to support V2G.

Last but not least, your point about us being a commercial organisation.
Technically, since last year, we are a limited company. This is due to the fact that more than one supplier contacted us to ask for help in developing services and apps for their customers. So you are right, there is a part of GenGame which is about selling our services, nevertheless, most of GenGame team is focused on delivering the research projects, which are funded through grants.

Now a little bit about my role:
My role is product manager, so my job is to understand how to best meet user needs.
Gamification is a very powerful tool to engage users, nevertheless, it doesn't work all the time and with all type of users.
So another good way to engage users is to.....moment of suspense....develop a product that answers their needs.
And this is exactly what we are trying to do with this survey. Of course, this is only a first and basic survey that we are using to confirm some of the assumptions we made + see if we can discover something we missed so far.

Here we go, I hope I answered some of your questions. And feel free to ask more!


I can't see anything in your profile about what company you work for - I assume this is commercial? If som I'm sur ehe moderators would like to to append such info here.

Can you tell us anything more about yourself/this project? I know there are V2G trials going on already with Leafs, and that ChaDemo supports this function, but what's the position with CCS? Is there a new versio of that which will support V2G? If so, are you involved with the development of that? IMWTK. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hello,

I am not 100% sure about what you refer to, but yes we are not the only organisation which is conducting research about V2G and DSR. ;)

If you are interested, I can suggest the following one:

V2G
V2GO (Vehicle to Grid Oxford)
E-FLEX (Real-world Energy Flexibility through Electric Vehicle Energy Trading)
E4Future: Nissan, Imperial College, Newcastle University, National Grid.

DSR
Electric Nation is engaging 700 EV drivers
The Smart EV project is funded by Scottish and Southern Energy Networks
Optimise Prime (UK Power Networks)
Oh right - so you are doing what Nissan an several others have been doing for the past 5 years?

:D

Nice
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Hey!

As I said to @HandyAndy, by no mean I wanted to be "rude"!!!

Regarding the "help to grow your business", this survey is used in the context of a research project... so I would say "help to keep your job" hihi:D

If you want more info please check the answer to HandyAndy's post...or ask me more questions.

Ps: lucky me there isn't a "don't like" button...if not by now I would be the "don't like" champion of the year.:sick:


These requests for information and help for a bussiness, without proper introduction are really quite rude.
If you want our help to grow your bussiness, please make some effort to be polite with a good introduction and what you are doing with the data.

Wheres the "dont like" button ?
 

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I'm as into tech as the next person, or more, but I'm mystified how you would use gamification to test out something that, to the nearest decimal point, there's zero hardware support for. With no cars, no CCS support (AFAIK), and no domestic hardware, you seem to be putting cart before horse in a big way.
Your questionnaire, BTW, seems to have nothing at all to do with V2G.
 

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I did the survey but it has almost nothing to do with V2G ?????

Most of us do not like the apps that came with our cars and don't want another one.

Generally apps related to charging an EV are unreliable and one of the most negative aspects of owning an EV.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm as into tech as the next person, or more, but I'm mystified how you would use gamification to test out something that, to the nearest decimal point, there's zero hardware support for. With no cars, no CCS support (AFAIK), and no domestic hardware, you seem to be putting cart before horse in a big way.
Your questionnaire, BTW, seems to have nothing at all to do with V2G.
Hi @AnotherJoe ,

To answer your first point about the hardware, and without giving away to much:

We are using a step by step approach.
The first version of the app won't probably use any hardware (other and smart meter data, if available) and will focus more on building a "user needs" based app (e.g. suggested the greenest time to charge the car, find the best energy contract,...), hence the type of questions in the survey .
In the second version, we will provide smart plugs and energy clamps (a piece of kit to read the electric consumption if a user doesn't have a smart meter).
The third version we will integrate directly with the charging point (which we are starting to work on it now...but it takes time...).

When it comes to V2G you need a lot of trust from the user, since you will remotely control both his car, charging point and potentially storage system. So what we are testing now is how to build this trust.

This, we believe, can be done using a smart plug for example.
 

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The first version of the app won't probably use any hardware (other and smart meter data, if available) and will focus more on building a "user needs" based app (e.g. suggested the greenest time to charge the car, find the best energy contract,...), hence the type of questions in the survey .

No app needed for that surely?I can easily on the web see who is my cheapest electric supplier. As for "greenest time" I use an electric co which (so they tell me) is 100% renewables. so its always the "greenest time".

In the second version, we will provide smart plugs and energy clamps (a piece of kit to read the electric consumption if a user doesn't have a smart meter).
Already available now. Whats new? Though I fail to see the point of these anyway, am i meant to switch off my oven when i see its using electricity? BUt there's nothing V2G about this.
The third version we will integrate directly with the charging point (which we are starting to work on it now...but it takes time...).
You need a CCS standard for that do you not? I understand thats targetted for 2025. So, new standard 20205, then wait for cars, then be able to buy them We are looking a decade away.
When it comes to V2G you need a lot of trust from the user, since you will remotely control both his car, charging point and potentially storage system. So what we are testing now is how to build this trust.
I'll wait until the hardware is availabel, thanks rather than mess with an app for the next ten years looking to see of my cooker is on by looking at the app rather than my cooker.

This, we believe, can be done using a smart plug for example.

Maybe it can but you seem to be doing a sleight of hand here, starting with V2G and then whilst the viewers attention is distracted, switch to smart plugs, monitor your electricity, advise on suppliers.

Also as said many posters here are sick to death of the ever growing number of apps. One more app to rule them all? No thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The first version of the app won't probably use any hardware (other and smart meter data, if available) and will focus more on building a "user needs" based app (e.g. suggested the greenest time to charge the car, find the best energy contract,...), hence the type of questions in the survey .

No app needed for that surely?I can easily on the web see who is my cheapest electric supplier. As for "greenest time" I use an electric co which (so they tell me) is 100% renewables. so its always the "greenest time".

In the second version, we will provide smart plugs and energy clamps (a piece of kit to read the electric consumption if a user doesn't have a smart meter).
Already available now. Whats new? Though I fail to see the point of these anyway, am i meant to switch off my oven when i see its using electricity? BUt there's nothing V2G about this.
The third version we will integrate directly with the charging point (which we are starting to work on it now...but it takes time...).
You need a CCS standard for that do you not? I understand thats targetted for 2025. So, new standard 20205, then wait for cars, then be able to buy them We are looking a decade away.
When it comes to V2G you need a lot of trust from the user, since you will remotely control both his car, charging point and potentially storage system. So what we are testing now is how to build this trust.
I'll wait until the hardware is availabel, thanks rather than mess with an app for the next ten years looking to see of my cooker is on by looking at the app rather than my cooker.

This, we believe, can be done using a smart plug for example.

Maybe it can but you seem to be doing a sleight of hand here, starting with V2G and then whilst the viewers attention is distracted, switch to smart plugs, monitor your electricity, advise on suppliers.

Also as said many posters here are sick to death of the ever growing number of apps. One more app to rule them all? No thanks.
Regarding the integration with charging point: this is done through specific API provided by the charging point manufacture.


Regarding hardware/app: First of all, it is important to underline that this is a research project. What we are doing here is to understand how to engage users with V2G, and DSR technologies. This is key, especially in the light of what happened with smart meters. So what the industry is doing is to understand how to make users comfortable with the idea of these technologies, and is doing so by financing research project like ours.
In order to get meaningful information you need to work with a relatively high number of participants, and currently, there aren't simply enough charging point which allows V2G (to give you an idea, one of the partners on the project is a supplier with a relatively high number of EV owners, noon has a Chademo). So the hardwares/apps is a compromise which will help to move in the right direction.

Regarding working on technology that will hit the mass market in 10 years: Other than being an EV driver I am also a cyclist, next Sunday I will take part in a 100 miles race with 3700m of elevation gain... I started training three years ago with a 15 miles ride...

Last, I am sure you don't need an app to "to see of my cooker is on" (haha :LOL:), nor do I, but the day we will have a solar panel, a heat pump, a storage system, an EV, and an agile tariff all working at the same time, at that point having an app that helps us to optimise everything might come to hand.
 

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When it comes to V2G you need a lot of trust from the user,
A cell phone app is a good way to loose that trust. You are asking us the wrong questions.

Here are a couple of suggestions for questions to ask in a survey:


1) Have you ever had an app fail, making it impossible to start the charge at a public charger?
2)Have you ever had an app fail, making it impossible to disconnect your car at the end of a charge session?

3) How often does the remote services app for your car fail?
Less than once a year
About once a year.
About once a month.
About once a week
A few times a week
It has never worked....

4) Would you consider using a 3rd party app to control the charging of your car at home?

My answers:

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) 2018 BMW - About once a month, usually for several days at time.
2017 LEAF It never worked.
2014 LEAF Failed a few times a week.

4) No.
 

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Last, I am sure you don't need an app to "to see of my cooker is on" (haha :LOL:), nor do I, but the day we will have a solar panel, a heat pump, a storage system, an EV, and an agile tariff all working at the same time, at that point having an app that helps us to optimise everything might come to hand.
Yep and thats about ten years off so I wont be checking my app every 5 minutes in the meantime to see if theres a cheaper tariff.
heck, i even had problems parking yesterday because my parking app decided I needed to relogon and re enter all new security questions, for some unknown reason. Just what you want when ina rush,
Thats an app for one simple purpose, pay for parking with one vendors meters.
I suppose it might take ten years to iron out the bugs with all that kit you mention above.
 

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@Simon Q. We have inherited a smart charger from the Electric Nation project (an Alfen) but are very disappointed that after the trial rather than being in control of it it has reverted to being a 'dumb' charger. As we have solar PV it would have been ideal to be able to control the charge rate on it. Is there an App in development that can do this and it not can you develop one? Also perhaps a bluetooth/Wifi luminosity sensor attached to the chargepoint could be used to control the charge rate? We have 3-phase power so I imagine monitoring our usage/export would be tricky for an economical cost although with a Gen-2 smart meter would be very feasible...
As for V2G it needs to be a leased piece of hardware for the next few years with an economic case for it until the prices come down massively. Also which EV manufacturers warrant its use - Nissan only I imagine in the UK currently?
I see it as being a fleet/business based system for now rather than domestic.
 

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Apps on 'phones are, IMHO, one of the very dumbest ways to do anything like this. I was forced to buy a mobile 'phone (which I rarely use, as we have no signal) simply because the gross stupidity of the short-sighted morons that have forced mobile 'phone driven access and payment as the only means to access most public charging.

As a consumer, I don't want to play games, enter competitions or do other inane stuff, I just want to be able to charge my car in the same way as I used to buy petrol.

I'm also not convinced that V2G is sensible, primarily because of the high impact it has on battery cycling in an EV. An Ev with a 50 kWh battery, driven an average of 10,000 miles a year, would cycle it's battery the equivalent of around 50 full cycles per year. A home battery, on the other hand, would cycle around 7 times more than this, so using a car battery pack for V2G means it will degrade many times faster.

There are very much better, high cycle life, low peak discharge power, battery technologies available that are massively more suited to grid-connected battery storage. Trying to use the relatively high peak power, relatively low cycle life, car battery chemistry for use as grid-connected energy storage seems to make no sense at all, AFAICS.
 
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