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Hate may be a bit harsh. The problem with this type of roll out is that although it may add a large number of chargers, they may not be in the best locations. Instavolt are great, so I am happy that they are providing the equipment but their other sites at Bannatynes are often not in the most convenient locations. Another worry is that if Instavolt invest too much and the sites don't generate enough income, they may go bust.
In my mind, there should be pressure from users (us) to allow competition with Ecotricity on motorway sites.
I’m happy to see more rapids wherever. There isn’t the need for ‘fuel stations’ as such as electricity doesn’t stink or need tankers or big tanks that might go bang. Charging whenever or wherever you stop the car for a while suits me just fine.

Yes many people want motorway convenience but there are (as just one example) many of these McDs adjacent to major junctions too.

Those would provide the bio I/O plus charge without a walk across a rainy carpark to be ripped off too.
 

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I did consider one potential problem though. Someone arriving to charge and either not eat, or eat inside the restaurant, would simply occupy the charging bay straight away, if it's free, and get on with it. However, if the plan is to buy a drive-thru meal followed by a charge session and use that time to eat in the car then it could go pear-shaped if another EV arrives whilst you are in the drive-thru queue. Perhaps best to occupy the bay and go inside for a takeaway meal instead of using the drive-thru. First world problems can sometimes be a bugger can't they.
Are you allowed to walk through a drive through?
 

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Lots of interesting comments.

I agree that hub sites (especially at MSA) are a better long term solution as reduce risk of queuing to charge, but these (hopefully) dual rapid sites are a stepping stone.

I think visibility of EVs charging to high footfall of McD customers is a major win as the more people see EVs plugged in they will start to normalise them.

My understanding of Instavolt model is they pay rent and/or revenue share. I suspect McD had been waiting for a good offer for a while and this was the first one that attracted them. Be interesting to know how long for, I suspect 10 years. Hopefully the deal doesn't increase cost of charging...
 

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I would still rather see larger hubs (5+) of rapid chargers in one place
One big issue is that the power connection for 8 chargers in one location can cost much more then for 2 chargers in 4 different locations. Hence for the same cost, it may be a choose of 10 locations with 2 chargers each or one location with 8.
 

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Another worry is that if Instavolt invest too much and the sites don't generate enough income, they may go bust.
I don’t know precisely what Instavolts business model is, but they/they’re investors are spending a lot of cash.

I suspect they’ll be hoping for a big buy out at some point, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they’re not yet making money.
 

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One big issue is that the power connection for 8 chargers in one location can cost much more then for 2 chargers in 4 different locations. Hence for the same cost, it may be a choose of 10 locations with 2 chargers each or one location with 8.
If that is the case, then I would still say, if we really had to make a choice, then fewer locations with several chargers allowing for redundancy is better than lots of single/double charger sites.

I believe that power providers are already working on making sure the supplies are going to be adequate to facilitate bigger installations.

A few years ago, I may have said the more the merrier (but I don't remember doing so), but I think we are now at a stage where we need to be critical about the quantity, quality and location of chargers.

So, I'm not saying that the chargers at McD's are a bad thing, because in general they are better than nothing, but we need better.
 

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If that is the case, then I would still say, if we really had to make a choice, then fewer locations with several chargers allowing for redundancy is better than lots of single/double charger sites.

I believe that power providers are already working on making sure the supplies are going to be adequate to facilitate bigger installations.

A few years ago, I may have said the more the merrier (but I don't remember doing so), but I think we are now at a stage where we need to be critical about the quantity, quality and location of chargers.

So, I'm not saying that the chargers at McD's are a bad thing, because in general they are better than nothing, but we need better.
That depends who ‘we’ is really. 35p per kWh is less than fossil but of course we have this need for p per mile to be so much lower to subsidise the greater cost of the EV........
 

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That depends who ‘we’ is really. 35p per kWh is less than fossil but of course we have this need for p per mile to be so much lower to subsidise the greater cost of the EV........
Just wait until the supposed removal of gas from dwellings kicks in.

Take my 25kw combi boiler away in my EPC low D 1950s semi with no spare space anywhere and replace with what exactly?

Again a purpose built new flat - no problem. For the masses? Hmmm.
 

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If that is the case, then I would still say, if we really had to make a choice, then fewer locations with several chargers allowing for redundancy is better than lots of single/double charger sites.

A few years ago, I may have said the more the merrier (but I don't remember doing so), but I think we are now at a stage where we need to be critical about the quantity, quality and location of chargers.
I have always been a strong advocate of the 'hub' concept for Rapids alongside a mix of 'destination' and 'street' installations for 7Kw units. And have been attacked many times for daring to suggest that large existing fuel hubs called petrol stations would be ideal for conversion to EV hubs.

As an early adopter, I have first-hand experience of the joys of permanently crossed fingers when approaching a rare as hen's teeth Rapid in case another early adopter was there. Let's ignore the appalling reliability for a while which is a different topic. But in another way, it does have a bearing as it's only a real issue if there is only one unit there. At a hub, it is far less of an issue unless the entire grid is down at that time.

I still can't think of better sites for hubs than existing petrol stations repurposed. They have the road access, and site issues already sorted out. Planning permissions would be a shoo-in. Owners of the most important sites have deep pockets from the oil industry and the wiser ones can see the way things are moving. Of course, such hubs will take a long time as liquid sales slowly diminish and electrons increase but I see the change to be inevitable.

There must be many places where a Company owns two sites within a couple of miles on either side of a large town. One way to manage the change would be to consolidate liquid sales at one and convert the other entirely to EV pumps. And enhance the EV station to provide a 'waiting room' with creature comforts like a coffee lounge and toilets. Perhaps a joint Costa venture.

If every large town went in this direction the EV problem would disappear. Both for locals with no off-road charge ability and for road trip drivers hopping town to town. And at the same time remove the present fixation for huge range EVs. Roll on the day.
 

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To be fair to Instavolt (still a big fan), they have recently opened an 8 rapid hub at Necton on the A47...



And another 8 rapid hub on the way in Banbury, just off J11 of the M40.

"InstaVolt has broken ground for eight state of the art high powered chargers in Banbury, said to be among the fastest in the UK, which will be switched on later this summer.
Located just off the M40 at Junction 11, drivers will be able to charge their electric vehicles while enjoying an array of facilities including a Costa Coffee, Frankie & Benny’s restaurant and a Miller and Carter steakhouse."
 

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I have always been a strong advocate of the 'hub' concept for Rapids alongside a mix of 'destination' and 'street' installations for 7Kw units. And have been attacked many times for daring to suggest that large existing fuel hubs called petrol stations would be ideal for conversion to EV hubs.

As an early adopter, I have first-hand experience of the joys of permanently crossed fingers when approaching a rare as hen's teeth Rapid in case another early adopter was there. Let's ignore the appalling reliability for a while which is a different topic. But in another way, it does have a bearing as it's only a real issue if there is only one unit there. At a hub, it is far less of an issue unless the entire grid is down at that time.

I still can't think of better sites for hubs than existing petrol stations repurposed. They have the road access, and site issues already sorted out. Planning permissions would be a shoo-in. Owners of the most important sites have deep pockets from the oil industry and the wiser ones can see the way things are moving. Of course, such hubs will take a long time as liquid sales slowly diminish and electrons increase but I see the change to be inevitable.

There must be many places where a Company owns two sites within a couple of miles on either side of a large town. One way to manage the change would be to consolidate liquid sales at one and convert the other entirely to EV pumps. And enhance the EV station to provide a 'waiting room' with creature comforts like a coffee lounge and toilets. Perhaps a joint Costa venture.

If every large town went in this direction the EV problem would disappear. Both for locals with no off-road charge ability and for road trip drivers hopping town to town. And at the same time remove the present fixation for huge range EVs. Roll on the day.
Yes how very true but i also see another advantage of the hub where the leccy supply is limited. One could have say 8 rapids but a supply only up to half the max. If they ever became fully occupied then the charge would just taper down to all chargers until of course the charge taper rate kicks in or people leave. This increases the chance of getting a charge which is a lot better than norm. Stastically i feel this would not be as bad as first thought and any locals would learn not to go at the busy time.

Most petrol stations are making money from the convenience store not the petrol. It will not be long before they realise that EV charging will bring in more money than petrol because of the store.

PS I have been to a petrol station and not been able to get petrol because of all the cars parked up at the conveince store.
 

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To be fair to Instavolt (still a big fan), they have recently opened an 8 rapid hub at Necton on the A47...



And another 8 rapid hub on the way in Banbury, just off J11 of the M40.

"InstaVolt has broken ground for eight state of the art high powered chargers in Banbury, said to be among the fastest in the UK, which will be switched on later this summer.
Located just off the M40 at Junction 11, drivers will be able to charge their electric vehicles while enjoying an array of facilities including a Costa Coffee, Frankie & Benny’s restaurant and a Miller and Carter steakhouse."
And if you get stuck here... you can always sleep at the Premier Inn just opposite...
131820
 

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It is a good sign, if only that a major brand is recognising that EVs aren't a "green fad". The risk is that it will turn out like Tesco where very few stores actually ended up with even one rapid due to lack of supply to the site. This would be a good example where government funding to help install a supply capable of two rapids per McD would be worthwhile and justfified.

Personally I wouldn't eat at McD but might stop for a coffee (or McFlurry!) use loo and WiFi while adding a few kWh. For example in North Wales when visiting in Model 3.
Tesco have signed a partner agreement with VW to support the ID series. I initially was getting an ID3 until I saw the E niro. VW were making a big thing of it. The local Tesco manager said they'd been briefed.
 

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Tesco have signed a partner agreement with VW to support the ID series. I initially was getting an ID3 until I saw the E niro. VW were making a big thing of it. The local Tesco manager said they'd been briefed.
Yes, the PODPoint charging Tesco have been installing is a partnership with VW. There are quite a few threads on it here. Just a shame so few sites got a rapid - VW clearly didn't want to spend anything on supply reinforcements.

 
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