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I don’t know precisely what Instavolts business model is, but they/they’re investors are spending a lot of cash.
They actually have some of your cash. The taxpayer has invested in Instavolt but aledegly on commercial terms. It is difficult to see the ROI in rapid charging, but hopefully they can make it pay.

 

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And have been attacked many times for daring to suggest that large existing fuel hubs called petrol stations would be ideal for conversion to EV hubs.
By all means demolish a petrol station and build an EV charging hub with maybe a Costa, Starbucks or similar with some parking for ICE customers.

What some of us object to is sticking a solo rapid in an existing petrol station totally unsuitable for the dwell times of EV charging. At least McD have tolerable coffee, WiFi and somewhere to sit.
 

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Yes how very true but i also see another advantage of the hub where the leccy supply is limited. One could have say 8 rapids but a supply only up to half the max. If they ever became fully occupied then the charge would just taper down to all chargers until of course the charge taper rate kicks in or people leave
This is sort of how Tesla Superchargers work, which is why you will see owners observe "urinal etiquette". However, as they got busier it caused complaints from owners so the latest V3 do not share power. They do in some cases install solar and batteries to help reduce grid requirements.


Most petrol stations are making money from the convenience store not the petrol. It will not be long before they realise that EV charging will bring in more money than petrol because of the store.
Every ICE owner has to visit a petrol station. The average fuel spend (2019 survey) is £35 so probably every 275 miles or so. That is a big opportunity to sell stuff after they fill up with fuel.

Today most EV owners charge at home so they won't actually visit a charging forecourt (aka hub) that often, some never. It is difficult to predict how big the forecourt retail opportunity will be when all cars are EV as some people will not be able to charge at home, but it could be a fraction of the current size.
 

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This is sort of how Tesla Superchargers work, which is why you will see owners observe "urinal etiquette". However, as they got busier it caused complaints from owners so the latest V3 do not share power. They do in some cases install solar and batteries to help reduce grid requirements.



Every ICE owner has to visit a petrol station. The average fuel spend (2019 survey) is £35 so probably every 275 miles or so. That is a big opportunity to sell stuff after they fill up with fuel.

Today most EV owners charge at home so they won't actually visit a charging forecourt (aka hub) that often, some never. It is difficult to predict how big the forecourt retail opportunity will be when all cars are EV as some people will not be able to charge at home, but it could be a fraction of the current size.
Actually the forecourt shops did hit a snag which is why so many have been reborn as little Tesco’s or similar more complete shops.

The issue was pay at pump. Many many customers instantly did just that and no longer bought the chocolate et al next to the queue. The pay at pump (with preauth) came from the sheer quantity of drive away theft.
 

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By all means demolish a petrol station and build an EV charging hub with maybe a Costa, Starbucks or similar with some parking for ICE customers.

What some of us object to is sticking a solo rapid in an existing petrol station totally unsuitable for the dwell times of EV charging. At least McD have tolerable coffee, WiFi and somewhere to sit.
My proposal to repurpose an entire existing fuel station into an EV hub is a pipe dream absent some really far-sighted executive having the gonads to push that concept through a tough boardroom entrenched in oil sales. I can almost see it happening where a company has two outlets close together that are stealing each other's customers and making both sites less viable by the day as overall petrol sales diminish. It would then be an easy decision to consolidate liquid sales to one outlet and EV pumps at the other.

Then, another easy decision would be to cater for the increased dwell time at the EV site by providing a comfortable place to spend up to an hour. A coffee and snack lounge with TV and wifi as well as clean toilets would increase the average spend per car with high margin products. Meanwhile, the remaining petrol site would be back to profitability. At least for another few years that is.

And where there are not two local sites under the same ownership a more radical approach will be required. As you say, hiding one Rapid away in a corner is no use to anyone. They need to bite the bullet and reorganise the entire forecourt to equalise both petrol and electron pump availability but with a view to the near future when the pump to be isolated at the rear will eventually be dispensing liquids.

As I say, one day >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 

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Discussion Starter #108 (Edited)
My proposal to repurpose an entire existing fuel station into an EV hub is a pipe dream absent some really far-sighted executive having the gonads to push that concept through a tough boardroom entrenched in oil sales. I can almost see it happening where a company has two outlets close together that are stealing each other's customers and making both sites less viable by the day as overall petrol sales diminish. It would then be an easy decision to consolidate liquid sales to one outlet and EV pumps at the other.

Then, another easy decision would be to cater for the increased dwell time at the EV site by providing a comfortable place to spend up to an hour. A coffee and snack lounge with TV and wifi as well as clean toilets would increase the average spend per car with high margin products. Meanwhile, the remaining petrol site would be back to profitability. At least for another few years that is.

And where there are not two local sites under the same ownership a more radical approach will be required. As you say, hiding one Rapid away in a corner is no use to anyone. They need to bite the bullet and reorganise the entire forecourt to equalise both petrol and electron pump availability but with a view to the near future when the pump to be isolated at the rear will eventually be dispensing liquids.

As I say, one day >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The first planning app was withdrawn in early March though... a new application is currently pending consideration.

 

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I have to say I struggle to remember the last motorway services I bought fuel for the Passat at. A tank is 650-680 miles and I usually buy at whatever supermarket I shop at. I loath the services with a passion.
I never filled up (with petrol) at MSAs purely because of the inflated prices, compared with supermarkets. Otherwise I had no problem with stopping there for refreshments etc. on a long journey. I'm not sure what there is to loathe about them.
 

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The planning app was withdrawn in early March though...
I thought that Shell had found someone with the gonads required. But it seems that he was castrated by someone in higher authority with more oil share options promised by his salary package.
 

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Discussion Starter #111

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Discussion Starter #112
“The submission of this application follows a previous application submitted on the site (LPA ref: 2019/03629/FUL) registered on 6 December 2019 which sought “the demolition of existing structures, removal of underground tanks, erection of a part one, part two storey plus sub-station to provide electric vehicle charging hub with sales building”. This application is no longer being pursued. A number of local resident concerns were raised in respect to this application principally in respect to the two-storey nature of the sales building and the proximity of part of the canopy on the western side of the site to the adjoining property. Shell undertook a public consultation event on Thursday, 13 February 2020 in order to listen to local resident concerns. As a consequence, the Company has considered and responded to these local resident concerns by amending the proposals for the site, through changing the sales building to single storey only and removing any canopy element in front of windows on the side elevation...”
131853
131854
 

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View attachment 131853
Revised app now in ....
A common tactic by mega-corporations is to over-demand in a planning application knowing that it would create local resistance. Then consult. Then revise plans to what was intended in the first place knowing that all resistance would cease as their demands had been addressed. They know that if they had submitted the eventually agreed plan in the first place it would have created objections that would be harder to fight than using this tactic. Result. I can't wait for such a precedent appearing in the flesh which will automatically make similar applications elsewhere much easier to glide through planning.
 

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Discussion Starter #114
View attachment 131853


A common tactic by mega-corporations is to over-demand in a planning application knowing that it would create local resistance. Then consult. Then revise plans to what was intended in the first place knowing that all resistance would cease as their demands had been addressed. They know that if they had submitted the eventually agreed plan in the first place it would have created objections that would be harder to fight than using this tactic. Result. I can't wait for such a precedent appearing in the flesh which will automatically make similar applications elsewhere much easier to glide through planning.
If I recall correctly, the original design was to have a 2-storey building so the upstairs could be a lounge area for drivers to use whilst charging. That seemed like a bit of a waste of space and resources to me, especially in a location such as this.

On the other hand, you’d think the neighbours would just have been pleased that a dirty, noisy petrol station which had regular fuel tanker deliveries, and that they chose to live next door to, was to be replaced by something far more pleasant, even if it was two storey.
 

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This wish-list is beginning to sound like the Gridserve site discussed on this thread.
Of course it is. But those are to be on greenfield sites when numerous perfectly located sites are already available to be converted. Existing petrol stations that are hanging on and only surviving economically by their ancillary sales from the shop should be closely looked at before such massive expense is incurred on hubs like Gridserve.
 

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This is sort of how Tesla Superchargers work, which is why you will see owners observe "urinal etiquette". However, as they got busier it caused complaints from owners so the latest V3 do not share power. They do in some cases install solar and batteries to help reduce grid requirements.



Every ICE owner has to visit a petrol station. The average fuel spend (2019 survey) is £35 so probably every 275 miles or so. That is a big opportunity to sell stuff after they fill up with fuel.

Today most EV owners charge at home so they won't actually visit a charging forecourt (aka hub) that often, some never. It is difficult to predict how big the forecourt retail opportunity will be when all cars are EV as some people will not be able to charge at home, but it could be a fraction of the current size.
I got into a friendly debate about this on the e Niro FB page. My local council in lockdown Leicester 🙄 have started a consultation on EV charging.

I am strongly against people using EV charging bays (EV drivers or ICE) as a convenient car parking slot: park up charge and go! More than once, being miles from home, unable to charge, whilst someone sits in an office taking up a 7kw slot all day: I call it the Milton Keynes disease! Lets face it 7kw as a location charger is old hat and I advocated a minimum of 50kw.

One of the arguments put too me by an engineer in this space, she is obviously well qualified and knows her stuff in this area, was a 50kw charger is £25k, the local grid would start to have an issue and you could fit multiple lower kW chargers for that price. I countered with the infra cost to install it all being an ex Director for CableTV installations I fully understand them costs and difficulties.

Additionally it was pointed out too me that 30-40% of EV drivers cant have a charger fitted (dont ask me for the evidence or the link I just accept that there is an issue here) . One of the arguments being countenanced was it should be OK to sit on a 7kw charger overnight or for an extended period of time for these EV drivers. So could residents charging bays could be a 'thing' in the future?

We can talk about suppliers all day long but unless and until there is a fully coherent government strategy in this area it'll continue to be a hodge lodge of solutions. I recently saw a post somewhere that a guy approached his local council, they had a charge point fitted for him at a lamppost, only to find when he got back from work it was inevitably occupied by some other unfortunate: a lock was then fitted!

There is a solution out there but - What?
 

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Of course it is. But those are to be on greenfield sites when numerous perfectly located sites are already available to be converted. Existing petrol stations that are hanging on and only surviving economically by their ancillary sales from the shop should be closely looked at before such massive expense is incurred on hubs like Gridserve.
Due to cost of land, there are precious few petrol stations in central London and it probably won't take much of a shift to BEVs to make the ones that remain unviable. That could be a tipping point that people ditch ICE there. Converting them to EV does give opportunity to expand retail space, which (as others have said) is where profit is.
 

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The many tall blocks of flats touted as ‘having no solution’ actually do if the freeholder gets involved.
Three phase is used to power the lifts and for the ‘sealed’ towers also to power the ventilation so it’s already there.
You then get the ‘who pays and how do they make a return’ issue as we are unfortunately still at the point where EV ‘fuel’ has to be cheap to make the purchase or PCP cost work.

Its a balance - the owner has to be able to make the case to buy the car and the supplier has to be able to make the case to provide the kit (and resell the power).

If taxation is used as subsidy, I’m very very much on the side of using it for cables and chargers and NOT for ‘free fuel’ as that’s just daft and clearly unsustainable.
 
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