Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I did this little exercise the other night for someone who told me there were "no significant cost savings going for an EV over an ICE car in the real world" - and then was startled by just how much they actually were.

If you have an ICE car and pay Child Maintenance then the difference is actually enough to make you weep.

Even as a private owner, it surprised me - Yes I proved my own point, but I didn't expect to prove it so well...

So here goes:-

(Moderators - I have used actual cars to show I haven't made up the figures - if that's not acceptable or breaks any rules please amend / delete the post and accept my apologies).

So I wanted to compare the cost of the car someone was looking to buy with a similar EV. Personally speaking I think the best in terms of range vs cost is the E-Niro at the moment and not sure that too many would disagree with me so used that as a comparison.

So I have done a comparison E-Niro to A class. The E-Niro is better equipped, in 4+ spec, and a roomier car, but it's the closest I can get to compare.

The A-Class - the 200 model with an auto, slightly slower to 60, but the closest I can get - the 250 is a bit quicker than the Niro so I picked the cheaper & more economical car.

Then to match the spec of the E-Niro, I had to add Distronic + which meant adding Premium Plus pack as well (all the features of which the Kia has as Standard). The E-Niro also has Ventilated seats, Full leather, Heated steering wheel 360 camera, full panoramic roof and a fair bit more too - but again wanted to be comparing like with like and have based it on 12,000m per year which I think is sensible.....

So that made the A-Class £36,730 - the E-Niro is £36,395 - and bear in mind the Niro is better specified and has a 7 year warranty - but to counter that, the Merc feels the classier product n terms of fit and finish and "perceived" quality - I can only say my Kia Soul is faultless after 9mths and 8000m so I suppose that makes it a "quality" product too.....

The person had said that an electric car was £10,000 more than an ICE one - well I feel this showed that a similar sized, spec for spec car wasn't actually that dissimilar in price.....

Cost​
A- Class A250 Auto + Distronic + and Premium Plus​
E-Niro 4+​
Purchase Price New£36,330£36,395
Servicingprobably £750 over 3 years?Free for 3 years (have to buy on a PCP but if you don't want finance you can pay that straight off without charge)
Annual Road tax£145£0
Company Car Tax 40% taxpayer 2021-2022
2022-2023
2023-2024
£4504 ( £ 375.41 per month)

not predicted to change, but if it does it will surely go up.
£145.58 ( £12.13 per month)
£291.16 ( £24.26 per month)
£291.16 (£24.26 per month)
Fuel benefit charge 2021 likely to increase slightly in 2022 and 2023£2952 (£246 per month)£0
Fuel Cost at £1.20 per litre at 12,000 per year£1157.00
£1200 in year two assuming a small petrol price increase
£1300 in year three assuming a small further price increase
N/A
Electricity cost assuming low use of free public chargers and using Octopus GO to charge at home at 5p Per KW£157.89 Per Year - 12,000 miles at 3.8m per KWh (what I have averaged through last summer and this winter).
3 public rapid charges when away from home£36
Servicing over 3 years£ 750Free - then estimated to be around £80 per year
TyresMuch the same for both cars
Depreciation (Estimate)A200 AMG line at Bristol, 3 1/2 yrs old and 12,000m in total £17,250 - so assume a 3 year old with 36,000m - around £15,000

Depreciation - £21,330
No 3 year old E-Niro's for sale - however a 2 year old E-Niro with 16,000 miles on is for sale for £28000 - was £33,000 when new, so £5000 depreciation in 2 years - so assume 3 years - depreciation of £7500 ??
Total Costs as a Company Car Driver
As a company Car driver receiving all private fuel paid for by company over the three years£ 22,368£ 727.90
Important note - if you pay Child Maintenance as I do - you will also pay 16% on the "taxable benefit" - so also.....16% x £55920 = £8947.2016% of £1819.75 = £291.16
So, as a 40% taxpayer, paying Child Maintenance, total cost of the car to you ----£31315.20 or £869.87 per month£ 1019.16 or £28.31 per month
Saving for the EV as a Company car if you do NOT pay Child Maintenance£21,640.10 over the three years.
Saving for the EV as a Company car if you pay Child Maintenance£30,296.16 over the three years
Total Costs as a Private Owner
Fuel + Road Tax + servicing£3657 + £450 + £750
= £ 4857
£ 474 + £0 + £0
Insurance (varies from person to person - but I had a quote of £287 for the Soul I drive) - the Merc a bit less£250 for 3 yr
£750 for 3 yr
£287 per yr -
£861 for 3 yr
Depreciation£21,000£7500 Somewhat of a guess
Total Cost for 3 years£26,607£8835
Total Cost per Mile (36,000m in total)£0.74 per mile£0.24 per mile
Saving with the EV£17,772 over 3 years


I really don't think even I realised how much going electric would save.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
571 Posts
Nice work and interesting reading.

I suspect when people say the EV is more expensive, they are simply comparing (for example) a well specc'd petrol e-Niro with an electric e-Niro.

For those on PCP (most new car buyers?) they will likely compare monthly costs of those two or similar cars.

What they're doing in some cases I think is avoiding thinking too hard about changing to an electric car as it is daunting. So they look for a comparison that logically proves what they had already emotionally decided.

They don't do the in-depth comparison you have done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
I did this little exercise the other night for someone who told me there were "no significant cost savings going for an EV over an ICE car in the real world" - and then was startled by just how much they actually were.

If you have an ICE car and pay Child Maintenance then the difference is actually enough to make you weep.

Even as a private owner, it surprised me - Yes I proved my own point, but I didn't expect to prove it so well...

So here goes:-

(Moderators - I have used actual cars to show I haven't made up the figures - if that's not acceptable or breaks any rules please amend / delete the post and accept my apologies).

So I wanted to compare the cost of the car someone was looking to buy with a similar EV. Personally speaking I think the best in terms of range vs cost is the E-Niro at the moment and not sure that too many would disagree with me so used that as a comparison.

So I have done a comparison E-Niro to A class. The E-Niro is better equipped, in 4+ spec, and a roomier car, but it's the closest I can get to compare.

The A-Class - the 200 model with an auto, slightly slower to 60, but the closest I can get - the 250 is a bit quicker than the Niro so I picked the cheaper & more economical car.

Then to match the spec of the E-Niro, I had to add Distronic + which meant adding Premium Plus pack as well (all the features of which the Kia has as Standard). The E-Niro also has Ventilated seats, Full leather, Heated steering wheel 360 camera, full panoramic roof and a fair bit more too - but again wanted to be comparing like with like and have based it on 12,000m per year which I think is sensible.....

So that made the A-Class £36,730 - the E-Niro is £36,395 - and bear in mind the Niro is better specified and has a 7 year warranty - but to counter that, the Merc feels the classier product n terms of fit and finish and "perceived" quality - I can only say my Kia Soul is faultless after 9mths and 8000m so I suppose that makes it a "quality" product too.....

The person had said that an electric car was £10,000 more than an ICE one - well I feel this showed that a similar sized, spec for spec car wasn't actually that dissimilar in price.....

Cost​
A- Class A250 Auto + Distronic + and Premium Plus​
E-Niro 4+​
Purchase Price New£36,330£36,395
Servicingprobably £750 over 3 years?Free for 3 years (have to buy on a PCP but if you don't want finance you can pay that straight off without charge)
Annual Road tax£145£0
Company Car Tax 40% taxpayer 2021-2022
2022-2023
2023-2024
£4504 ( £ 375.41 per month)

not predicted to change, but if it does it will surely go up.
£145.58 ( £12.13 per month)
£291.16 ( £24.26 per month)
£291.16 (£24.26 per month)
Fuel benefit charge 2021 likely to increase slightly in 2022 and 2023£2952 (£246 per month)£0
Fuel Cost at £1.20 per litre at 12,000 per year£1157.00
£1200 in year two assuming a small petrol price increase
£1300 in year three assuming a small further price increase
N/A
Electricity cost assuming low use of free public chargers and using Octopus GO to charge at home at 5p Per KW£157.89 Per Year - 12,000 miles at 3.8m per KWh (what I have averaged through last summer and this winter).
3 public rapid charges when away from home£36
Servicing over 3 years£ 750Free - then estimated to be around £80 per year
TyresMuch the same for both cars
Depreciation (Estimate)A200 AMG line at Bristol, 3 1/2 yrs old and 12,000m in total £17,250 - so assume a 3 year old with 36,000m - around £15,000

Depreciation - £21,330
No 3 year old E-Niro's for sale - however a 2 year old E-Niro with 16,000 miles on is for sale for £28000 - was £33,000 when new, so £5000 depreciation in 2 years - so assume 3 years - depreciation of £7500 ??
Total Costs as a Company Car Driver
As a company Car driver receiving all private fuel paid for by company over the three years£ 22,368£ 727.90
Important note - if you pay Child Maintenance as I do - you will also pay 16% on the "taxable benefit" - so also.....16% x £55920 = £8947.2016% of £1819.75 = £291.16
So, as a 40% taxpayer, paying Child Maintenance, total cost of the car to you ----£31315.20 or £869.87 per month£ 1019.16 or £28.31 per month
Saving for the EV as a Company car if you do NOT pay Child Maintenance£21,640.10 over the three years.
Saving for the EV as a Company car if you pay Child Maintenance£30,296.16 over the three years
Total Costs as a Private Owner
Fuel + Road Tax + servicing£3657 + £450 + £750
= £ 4857
£ 474 + £0 + £0
Insurance (varies from person to person - but I had a quote of £287 for the Soul I drive) - the Merc a bit less£250 for 3 yr
£750 for 3 yr
£287 per yr -
£861 for 3 yr
Depreciation£21,000£7500 Somewhat of a guess
Total Cost for 3 years£26,607£8835
Total Cost per Mile (36,000m in total)£0.74 per mile£0.24 per mile
Saving with the EV£17,772 over 3 years


I really don't think even I realised how much going electric would save.
This is a great comparison. It's a slap in the face for the ICE non believers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I didn't do the full maths.

I did it for company car tax and Child Maintenance reasons. Before this I'd had a Focus 1.5 TDci Auto and run it as a company car. I'd chosen to drop my fuel allowance as I was being taxed more on the fuel than the amount I was using....

It just seemed a no-brainer to me, so I swapped into the BEV. However when I look at those figures I'm damn glad I did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The absolute kicker as a Private owner is the almost glacial depreciation - although in the above example I did ignore new discount - if you can get £20k off a new Merc A class it would change things somewhat - perhaps for fairness I should actually put that in....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
so just searched Carwow for a deal on the A200 Auto with Premium plus (although it didn't allow me to choose Distronic Plus which would make the car similar spec (although still a lot lower than the Kia)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok so best discount about £2800 - so take that out of the saving on the BEV - and oh look - you still save about £15k over 3 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,223 Posts
The absolute kicker as a Private owner is the almost glacial depreciation
This is my experience.

Beginning of nov 2017, bought a 15 plate Nissan Leaf Tekna with 13300 miles for £11000. In June 2019 I sold it to a dealer for £10650 with 25500 miles on it. £350 depreciation in 19 months.

In August of 2019 I bought a new Tesla Model 3 SR+ for £38290. Going by auto trader and wbac prices, it's currently worth around £34000. A little over 10% depreciation in the first 19 months, which compares very favourably with the depreciation that an equivalently specified 320d, Audi A4, etc would have experienced.

I suspect that part of the reason is that manufacturers cause their own depreciation with their games of discounts and pre-registration, etc. If it were possible to buy a new one for £10k under list then that means a used one must immediately be worth less than that. There has never been a way to buy a new model 3 for under £30k (and in fact the price of a new model 3 is now £3200 higher than it was when we bought ours), so the fact that Tesla aren't undermining the price of the new cars means that the price of the used cars is also not undermined (cue howls of derision from those who bought model X before the HUGE price drop a few years ago - which kind of proves the point about discounted new prices trashing used prices)

Over 5.5 years my Volvo V70 diesel depreciated £11100, which worked out over 20p/mile, or more than the fuel cost (16p/mile).
 

·
Registered
Ioniq 5
Joined
·
24,370 Posts
I did this little exercise the other night for someone who told me there were "no significant cost savings going for an EV over an ICE car in the real world" - and then was startled by just how much they actually were.

If you have an ICE car and pay Child Maintenance then the difference is actually enough to make you weep.

Even as a private owner, it surprised me - Yes I proved my own point, but I didn't expect to prove it so well...

So here goes:-

(Moderators - I have used actual cars to show I haven't made up the figures - if that's not acceptable or breaks any rules please amend / delete the post and accept my apologies).

So I wanted to compare the cost of the car someone was looking to buy with a similar EV. Personally speaking I think the best in terms of range vs cost is the E-Niro at the moment and not sure that too many would disagree with me so used that as a comparison.

So I have done a comparison E-Niro to A class. The E-Niro is better equipped, in 4+ spec, and a roomier car, but it's the closest I can get to compare.

The A-Class - the 200 model with an auto, slightly slower to 60, but the closest I can get - the 250 is a bit quicker than the Niro so I picked the cheaper & more economical car.

Then to match the spec of the E-Niro, I had to add Distronic + which meant adding Premium Plus pack as well (all the features of which the Kia has as Standard). The E-Niro also has Ventilated seats, Full leather, Heated steering wheel 360 camera, full panoramic roof and a fair bit more too - but again wanted to be comparing like with like and have based it on 12,000m per year which I think is sensible.....

So that made the A-Class £36,730 - the E-Niro is £36,395 - and bear in mind the Niro is better specified and has a 7 year warranty - but to counter that, the Merc feels the classier product n terms of fit and finish and "perceived" quality - I can only say my Kia Soul is faultless after 9mths and 8000m so I suppose that makes it a "quality" product too.....

The person had said that an electric car was £10,000 more than an ICE one - well I feel this showed that a similar sized, spec for spec car wasn't actually that dissimilar in price.....

Cost​
A- Class A250 Auto + Distronic + and Premium Plus​
E-Niro 4+​
Purchase Price New£36,330£36,395
Servicingprobably £750 over 3 years?Free for 3 years (have to buy on a PCP but if you don't want finance you can pay that straight off without charge)
Annual Road tax£145£0
Company Car Tax 40% taxpayer 2021-2022
2022-2023
2023-2024
£4504 ( £ 375.41 per month)

not predicted to change, but if it does it will surely go up.
£145.58 ( £12.13 per month)
£291.16 ( £24.26 per month)
£291.16 (£24.26 per month)
Fuel benefit charge 2021 likely to increase slightly in 2022 and 2023£2952 (£246 per month)£0
Fuel Cost at £1.20 per litre at 12,000 per year£1157.00
£1200 in year two assuming a small petrol price increase
£1300 in year three assuming a small further price increase
N/A
Electricity cost assuming low use of free public chargers and using Octopus GO to charge at home at 5p Per KW£157.89 Per Year - 12,000 miles at 3.8m per KWh (what I have averaged through last summer and this winter).
3 public rapid charges when away from home£36
Servicing over 3 years£ 750Free - then estimated to be around £80 per year
TyresMuch the same for both cars
Depreciation (Estimate)A200 AMG line at Bristol, 3 1/2 yrs old and 12,000m in total £17,250 - so assume a 3 year old with 36,000m - around £15,000

Depreciation - £21,330
No 3 year old E-Niro's for sale - however a 2 year old E-Niro with 16,000 miles on is for sale for £28000 - was £33,000 when new, so £5000 depreciation in 2 years - so assume 3 years - depreciation of £7500 ??
Total Costs as a Company Car Driver
As a company Car driver receiving all private fuel paid for by company over the three years£ 22,368£ 727.90
Important note - if you pay Child Maintenance as I do - you will also pay 16% on the "taxable benefit" - so also.....16% x £55920 = £8947.2016% of £1819.75 = £291.16
So, as a 40% taxpayer, paying Child Maintenance, total cost of the car to you ----£31315.20 or £869.87 per month£ 1019.16 or £28.31 per month
Saving for the EV as a Company car if you do NOT pay Child Maintenance£21,640.10 over the three years.
Saving for the EV as a Company car if you pay Child Maintenance£30,296.16 over the three years
Total Costs as a Private Owner
Fuel + Road Tax + servicing£3657 + £450 + £750
= £ 4857
£ 474 + £0 + £0
Insurance (varies from person to person - but I had a quote of £287 for the Soul I drive) - the Merc a bit less£250 for 3 yr
£750 for 3 yr
£287 per yr -
£861 for 3 yr
Depreciation£21,000£7500 Somewhat of a guess
Total Cost for 3 years£26,607£8835
Total Cost per Mile (36,000m in total)£0.74 per mile£0.24 per mile
Saving with the EV£17,772 over 3 years


I really don't think even I realised how much going electric would save.
Sorry, I don’t understand how child maintenance has any bearing on the above?

Also your fuel surcharge and BiK calcs seem way off.
 

·
Registered
Audi eTron 55
Joined
·
1,060 Posts
Sorry, I don’t understand how child maintenance has any bearing on the above?

Also your fuel surcharge and BiK calcs seem way off.
Agreed. My child maintenance is calculated on income after tax...therefore, if anything, having a higher-tax car would reduce the amount of maintenance that I pay. May have missed a trick there 👿
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Agreed. My child maintenance is calculated on income after tax...therefore, if anything, having a higher-tax car would reduce the amount of maintenance that I pay. May have missed a trick there 👿
You are on the old scheme of calculating Child Benefit / Maintenance then.

The new one is based on your “income” before tax but after pension - and between £15k a year and about £60k it is 16%. But the total kick in the nuts is that your car is classed as “income”. So my previous car had a list price of very approx £30k and a BIK rate of 30% - so was taxed as me earning an extra £10k per year, and my fuel benefit scale charge was the £24000 x 30% so another £9k per year - so I had my “salary” PLUS £19k minus my pension. So they then tax you on your income + the. £19k - and that was what they calculated it on.

So this last year with no company car BIK or fuel scale charge, my CMS payments have dropped by £3040 per year. because it’s done on pre-tax, my CMS payments (and this is on direct pay mind, not them collecting it) were nearly 40% of my take home salary after tax!

Now they have dropped it’s more like 25% - still a lot, but actually a fair level now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sorry, I don’t understand how child maintenance has any bearing on the above?

Also your fuel surcharge and BiK calcs seem way off.
Nope The BIK and Fuel charge are spot on - that isn’t what you actually PAY - that is what you are taxed on - but that is the figure CMS use to add to your income for calculating child maintenance now.

If you pay child maintenance and it’s on the new scheme and it’s done through CMS, just be aware that you are not only paying company car tax on it, but also 16% CMS on the benefit value.
 

·
Registered
Audi eTron 55
Joined
·
1,060 Posts
You are on the old scheme of calculating Child Benefit / Maintenance then.

The new one is based on your “income” before tax but after pension - and between £15k a year and about £60k it is 16%. But the total kick in the nuts is that your car is classed as “income”. So my previous car had a list price of very approx £30k and a BIK rate of 30% - so Wasn’t taxed as me earning an extra £10k per year, and my fuel benefit scale charge was the £24000 x 30% so another £9k per year - so I had my “salary” PLUS £19k minus my pension, and that was what they calculated it on.

So this last year with no company car BIK or fuel scale charge, my CMS payments have dropped by £3040 per year. because it’s done on pre-tax, my CMS payments (and this is on direct pay mind, not them collection it) were nearly 40% of my take home salary.

Now they have dropped it’s more like 25% - still a lot, but actually a fair level now.
Wow. Thanks for that. Better hope the second time round goes better...as Oscar Wilde said, the secret of a happy marriage is to marry your second wife first. Let's hope he was right...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Hey, sorry to reply to such an old thread but thanks for looking into the numbers especially in the context of CMS. I'd really like to know more, mind if I PM you ?
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top