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Ionity roll out updates (was - first 20 CCS Rapids in next 8 weeks!)

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121K views 1K replies 148 participants last post by  Bodgerx 
#1 ·
The Volkswagen Group, Daimler, Ford, and BMW have inked a deal to set up what they have named “Ionity,” a high-power charging (HPC) network tailored to EVs in European countries. Germany, Norway, and Austria will be getting the first stations and these are going to be located at intervals of 120 kilometers (75 miles), so range anxiety shouldn’t be much of an issue in those parts of Europe that will be covered by Ionity.

VW, Daimler, Ford, BMW Team Up To Build Ionity Charging Network

BMW, Daimler, Ford and VW Group officially announce Ionity European EV charger network | Autocar
 
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#2 ·
By the end of 2018, there are going to be more than 100 stations utilizing the European charging standard Combined Charging System (CCS) and providing a maximum capacity of up to 350 kW per charging point.

Do we know of any EV's that can charge at 350kW yet? I guess the Ioniq has been known to charge at 70kW and maybe Tesla's charge at up to 135kW. Interesting times ahead, shame the new Leaf doesn't have battery cooling to take advantage of higher charging rates or have they addressed this shortcoming with a change in battery chemistry?
 
#3 ·
"We support industry standardization with the use of the CCS standard, as it is the most commonly used charging standard that enables the majority of BEV drivers to use the charging network. The network will not be limited to vehicles from a single manufacturer but rather improve the experience for all BEV vehicles with the CCS standard.

Really ?
 
#4 ·
And their website is currently just a placeholder, no information on locations, availability, tariffs, helpline availability, payment options, or usage registration requirements... which is pretty much mandatory if you're talking about EV charging networks.

So, this is just regurgitating a press release from 2016, the only difference is that their offering now has a name, rather than "the proposed charging network established as a joint venture between Ford, VAG, BMW and Daimler".
 
#8 ·
New Leaf is Chademo.

None of the current Teslas, Nissan or Renault EVs use CCS. And that's a huge chunk of the current market.

Seems therefore that the emphasis is on selling CCS vehicles (and undermining the competition's charging standard) and shoring up VW/BMW's market share rather than establishing a profitable charging network. Interesting.
 
#12 ·
If 20 sites are going to be live before end of this year they must have already signed land leases and arranged HV supply to the sites. On that basis, I would have expected a list of sites to have been part of the press release.

There are some other threads about this on here, including this one from Nov 2016!

BLIMEY BMW, Ford, VW and others to create vast European EV charging network

Frankly, they really haven't done much in a year except come up with a name. Even the Apprentice candidates could do better :D
 
#13 ·
New Leaf is Chademo.

None of the current Teslas, Nissan or Renault EVs use CCS. And that's a huge chunk of the current market.

Seems therefore that the emphasis is on selling CCS vehicles (and undermining the competition's charging standard) and shoring up VW/BMW's market share rather than establishing a profitable charging network. Interesting.
The hope/expectation is that the Model 3 will have CCS in Europe so it can use these chargers. I suspect the Leaf will be the last new car to launch without CCS in Europe.
 
#14 ·
Sorry, but Chademo is the past, CCS is the future. It’s the price of early adoption that there is now a better competing standard.
Eh? We'd better tell Tesla then , J1772, Mennekes, SAE Combo, ChaDeMo, Tesla, all still relevant for years to come.
This is just a vain attempt to railroad sales not standardisation, Are 3 phase Zoe 40's in the past?
If they gave a hoot about a harmonised charging network they would be installing 3 headers, 22kW AC + the 2 most popular DC formats that 250k European cars already have, it wouldn't cost any more...
 
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#15 ·
Sorry, but Chademo is the past, CCS is the future. It’s the price of early adoption that there is now a better competing standard.
CCS is a cobbled together "standard" that's an add on to Mennekes or J1772 and results in a Frankenplug but has the advantage (to non-Japanese OEMs) of being incompatible with CHAdeMO. The latter is a very well thought out standard and is still included in the EU legislation even though CCs is the standard. Be honest, why would you expect the german automakers to support the most popular EV out there?

Looking at it from a business perspective it makes perfect sense for the German automakers to put in a CCS network since pretty much only they use it so they're supporting their products without assisting anyone else. Why would it be different? The 350kW is to try and get the charging time down primarily driven by Porsche and while there aren't any cars on the market that can take advantage of it yet, the Mission E is coming and it will provide a halo effect even if infrastructure limitations limit the reality. Having said that Tesla have managed to put in locations with multiple chargers capable of delivering 145kW each (split across two cables) so maybe it's not that big an issue. The Tesla chargers are at a fairly standard 400V though while the 350kW ones are 800V which will require some different hardware and presumably higher installation costs.

It's still a good move assuming they do more than install two chargers worldwide in two years!
 
#34 ·
CCS is a cobbled together "standard" that's an add on to Mennekes or J1772 and results in a Frankenplug but has the advantage (to non-Japanese OEMs) of being incompatible with CHAdeMO. The latter is a very well thought out standard and is still included in the EU legislation even though CCs is the standard. Be honest, why would you expect the german automakers to support the most popular EV out there?
Ford was also involved, as was Tesla, before Elon spat his dummy out.

In fact the CCS standard was ratified before the first Model S was sold, meanwhile CHAdeMO, which has the very real downside of exporting a CANBus link, was a proprietary system at the time and TEPCO was attempting to monetise it's use and gain unfair advantage over all other manufacturers.

Only under threat of outright banning of CHAdeMO in the EU, did TEPCO finally relent and open the standard in order to be accepted on to CENELE. In doing so allowing Nissan to not lose face. (AND write off the significant investment they had made in what would have been legacy installations.)

The fact Nissan and Renault couldn't even get their cr@p together and at least share a common standard though really says it all.

(As for calling it Frankenplug, just more Elon spin. CCS would have called for expensive last minute sheet metal tooling changes to the Model S, and it was easier to just hit Twitter. The Model S / Supercharger network would be in a far better place today had they gone CCS.)
 
#17 ·
No, it woudn't need AC. It would merely need to do the protocol conversion, and probably have a contactor for the DC bus, and some current loop measurements for safety. Entirely feasible. Getting it approved by BSi ,or TüV, or the Chademo association would be a challenge though, but it's no harder than Tesla's Chademo adapter. How much did Tesla spend getting their Chademo adapter to market? I'd guess it would be millions of dollars.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Looks like things are happening behind the scenes so to speak. but I think DNO power connections will be a big factor concerning time scales. MRH group have over 450 fuel stations in the UK (edit currently 491 sites and growing) and are teaming up with Ionity. I just hope we see some evidence on the ground.

MRH partners with IONITY to roll out electric charging - Forecourt Trader

Richard
 
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#20 ·
The Volkswagen Group, Daimler, Ford, and BMW have inked a deal to set up what they have named “Ionity,” a high-power charging (HPC) network tailored to EVs in European countries. Germany, Norway, and Austria will be getting the first stations and these are going to be located at intervals of 120 kilometers (75 miles), so range anxiety shouldn’t be much of an issue in those parts of Europe that will be covered by Ionity.

VW, Daimler, Ford, BMW Team Up To Build Ionity Charging Network

BMW, Daimler, Ford and VW Group officially announce Ionity European EV charger network | Autocar
20 stations are complete and 50 should be operational. The second link has this quote in which suggests 20 stations are already complete and it is a target of 50 by year end (2017)

"So far, 20 stations have been completed of a projected 400 charging stations planned by 2020. The network currently stretches along major routes in Germany, Austria and Norway, with 120km between each station. The short-term target is 50 stations by the end of the year(2017)."

Richard
 
#22 ·
I guess it doesn't affect the UK anyway - doubt we'll see any stations here now.
Shell are signed up for UK rollout so yes we will be seeing Ionity installs. Ultra-E not so much as thats the spiritual successor to the Ten-T project and wholly EU funded.
 
#26 ·
Difficult one that. But I have seen documents that state no consideration will be given until planning permission is granted. Then the installer has to apply to the DNO. The DNO has 45 days to respond. If the local grid needs reinforcement then more delays. I think there are probably lots of delays in the DNO system. Looking at the Burton install its on a large commercial/shopping area. I cannot believe that 100 kW would cause a problem. You would think that when a large center is first connected then the initial supply connection would allow for future expansion and that the government would look on this as a national resource. Also when someone like Instavolt applied for planning they would get a quick answer from the DNO. Then be allowed to install cables (but not connect them) ahead of the game. Any network re-enforcement would be a top priority. Sadly I think red tape prevents any streamlining of the system.

Richard
 
#29 ·
IONITY EN

Nothing about how to use their charging points, cost, etc. so I assume none operation yet. Perhaps Ford Europe are making sure they get their new EV out at the same time as the chargers :rolleyes:

Colour me cynical, but it will be good if there is a ultra rapid network for all BEVs. Do we know any more details on connectors? In USA Electrify America are mandated to provide CCS and CHAdeMO, but in EU IONITY could (will?) do CCS only.
 
#31 ·
OMG!!!

Have you seen the red spots in Wales!

WALES!
Don't get too excited, I suspect the map was created by the MD's 3 year old kid with a crayon. Once they start to see how hard and expensive it is to get a DNO connection for 6x350kW chargers in Llanberis the dots will move.

(Above was a joke as plenty of power in Llanberis - see Electric Mountain - Home who are installing chargers soon. 7kW though!)
 
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#40 ·
@mgboyes completely agree with your point around powering the locking mechanism (which I guess could "steal" power from the signalling pins, even if it had to charge some sort of batery/buffer).

Though I'd suggest there's an even more fundamental issue and that is in building something robust enough to handle 100's of amps, with mechanical moving parts, that average Joe user will leave rolling around in the boot of a car ;)

The Tesla CHAdeMO adaptor is a hugely well engineered device, with everything potted to mitigate poor manual handling and vibration, with no moving parts. If anything it's one of Tesla's only "over-engineered" components, and likely sold at cost (if not below) on the basis it takes pressure off the SuC network.


Edit: To put this into perspective the CHAdeMO adaptor costs less than enabling dual charging on cars that have the hardware.
 
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