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Discussion Starter #1
I only ask as I've seen that Runcorn charging points have moved over to LiFe and are now at this rate.

I believe people will now avoid them like the plague but would love to hear others views on this as well.
Also I'm going to ignore the source London/ubitricity rates as they are high for different reasons
 

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MG EZS 2020
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That's stupid pricing.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Its in Runcorn,
The post was previously free on the Polar network but has now been taken over by LiFe
Charging is free anyway in this part from what i recall.

i thought the idea was to encourage people to use an EV and come into towns but this just seems more of a middle finger to me. If you got say your first 6kw free(ie 1hr) and then it was 9p/kwh i reckon it wouldn't be too bad.
 

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MG ZS EV Exclusive
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Sounds very pricey - I avoid Ubritricity because they are 24p and Source London which charges per hour and includes parking fees so difficult to judge. 27p is more like a rapid charge price
 

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Its in Runcorn,
The post was previously free on the Polar network but has now been taken over by LiFe
Charging is free anyway in this part from what i recall.

i thought the idea was to encourage people to use an EV and come into towns but this just seems more of a middle finger to me. If you got say your first 6kw free(ie 1hr) and then it was 9p/kwh i reckon it wouldn't be too bad.
Why would you expect it to be free and then to be cheaper than home charging? Who's paying the real cost?

Home chargers are £500+ these days. Just that alone adds several pence to your charge rate over 3 years at 10kWh a day.

People need to stop being so naïve.
 

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The model changing from subsiding EVs to providing a service (at a premium) to those who need to get a charge.
This is a reflection of that. Public posts are surprisingly expensive to put in and the infrastructure isn't free either.
I doubt they making a lot (any?) of money even at 27p/kWh.
The Manchester GMEV network is about to drop free charging too. More worrying it's Amey running it but that's a different issue :D
 
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2020 BMW i3S 120Ah BEV
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TBH a lot of charge points don't get much use, and will get less as more and more cars have higher capacity batteries. The networks are placing in lots of upfront investment and then a recoup of barely a few quid a day is going to be a problem for them unless the prices for ad-hoc charging go up.
 

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MG ZS EV Exclusive
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TBH a lot of charge points don't get much use, and will get less as more and more cars have higher capacity batteries. The networks are placing in lots of upfront investment and then a recoup of barely a few quid a day is going to be a problem for them unless the prices for ad-hoc charging go up.
It's not necessarily "ad hoc" charging.

If you live in a city with no off street parking (and therefore no possiblilty of 4 - 5p per kw at home charging and the convenience that comes with it) public charging is all there is. City dwellers need to be encouraged to move to EVs for pollution considerations so a reasonably priced, efficient public charging network is necessary.

There is always a difference in petrol prices between different filling stations so different electric charging prices are to be expected - I doubt though that fossil fuels have as much variation as DOUBLING in price in the same areathough?

The whole infrastructure project so far has been disjointed and really needs shaking up.
 

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Seems like a price to ensure it is only used when really needed, as opposed to being so cheap people will plug-in even if they are at 75%.
I guess it also helps make the charger available more often, for more users, so in effect makes it more appealing to use an EV if you know you are more likely to be able to charge.

Also with a 7kWh post you need to think about the location, and the longevity of the average stay in the same space if it were a car that can't be plugged in. If you find that people normally stay 45 mins, but would stay 3 hours since they can charge, it is blocking a space that could be used by 4 people over the same amount of time rather than 1.

I think as chargers in cities/towns/car parks etc. become more abundant, you'll find the price will settle, with it going up to start with and then drop down again. I also envisage that councils will enforce caps on their own charging costs over time, and enforce maximum allowed time more strictly with charging stopping automatically, and if you are 15 mins over then you get an automatic charge applied.

So many things that will/can/should happen over the next few years, some will work, others won't, and without data gathering and testing you can't just automatically assume an idea is bad or good, especially when dealing with the general public.
 

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There will always be a few people on a journey where they will be happy to pay 27p/kWh on a 7kW post. I've been in that situation myself, although I would try and take the bare minimum required to get me to a cheaper or faster charger.

It's true that most people will try quite hard to avoid being in that situation, as do I. I am sure there are locations where this would still be quite attractive to some people. It's basically a free market, and if you are short on options, you are generally willing to pay more.
 

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It's not necessarily "ad hoc" charging.

The whole infrastructure project so far has been disjointed and really needs shaking up.
Indeed, and I agree with your points about the difficulty for people who can't charge at home. I do worry that a lot of charging points are going to prove uneconomical, however, so best we can hope there is for tiered charging based on usage profile, "being a member", or plainly based on some subsidy or other as-yet not invented...

I also suspect that in the long term people need to be discouraged from taking personal cars - even electric ones - on every journey just because of the density of traffic and the overall energy requirement so personally I fully expect to see a taxation system brought in that will level up the per-mile cost of EV energy to come closer to the best possible costs of fuelling ICE vehicles. This sounds negative, but I hope that when this happens BEVs won't cost more than ICEVs any more and "range" issues will be more or less compensated by manufacturer- or government-led public charging infrastructure that makes large battery capacity more or less irrelevant, and the end result will be cars that are nicer to drive, more accelerative, quieter, less smelly, way better for the environment, and still practical and easy to live with, even on long journeys.
 

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There is always a difference in petrol prices between different filling stations so different electric charging prices are to be expected - I doubt though that fossil fuels have as much variation as DOUBLING in price in the same areathough?
Not comparable. I don't have a filling station at home and there's no Government subsidies for installing them.

But yes, if you remove the tax and fixed overheads for a petrol station, the rest of it can double within a short area.
 

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According to Zap-Map, the 7kW VendElectric charging points at National Trust Attingham Park charge £2 per hour plus a 50p connection charge. This works out at 28.5p/kWh (plus the 50p connection charge) if you can draw 7kW, and 55.6p/kWh (plus the 50p connection charge) if your on-board charger can only draw 3.6kW.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Why would you expect it to be free and then to be cheaper than home charging? Who's paying the real cost?

Home chargers are £500+ these days. Just that alone adds several pence to your charge rate over 3 years at 10kWh a day.

People need to stop being so naïve.
Its not free when you are paying a Polar Subscription...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
According to Zap-Map, the 7kW VendElectric charging points at National Trust Attingham Park charge £2 per hour plus a 50p connection charge. This works out at 28.5p/kWh (plus the 50p connection charge) if you can draw 7kW, and 55.6p/kWh (plus the 50p connection charge) if your on-board charger can only draw 3.6kW.
Ruddy hell thats a lot and at best you'll get more like 6.5kw

For some of those saying about charging at home...
Yes i could do that but it would mean running an extension lead from my living room out the window, round the lampost outside my flat and down to my car....
not exactly very H&S compliant i suspect
 
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