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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone got full access to this article?


Apparently buying a new EV is the second most climate destructive thing anyone can do as its production emits 12Te of CO2.
 

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Did you read the article beyond the paywall, did they make any kind of whole life comparison against an ICE vehicle?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Did you read the article beyond the paywall, did they make any kind of whole life comparison against an ICE vehicle?
Apologies for posting this in the wrong forum.

I hadn't read the whole article before posting, but I have now because I found you can get one article per month for free.

The main argument is that EVs only save 30% CO2 emissions over their life cycle compared with ICE vehicles and their manufacture will consume a large proportion of the carbon budget if all ICE vehicles are replaced with EVs.

The worst thing you can do environmentally, according to the article is to buy a new ICE vehicle.

I'm not sure about the numbers used. 12Te of CO2 for manufacture is higher than other figures I have read. They don't account for how this may fall in the future or the effect of more renewables on the CO2 emissions from power generation.
 

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The main argument is that EVs only save 30% CO2 emissions over their life cycle compared with ICE vehicles and their manufacture will consume a large proportion of the carbon budget if all ICE vehicles are replaced with EVs.
This is currently true excepting the 30% is probably debatable. It does currently use more energy to produce an EV, but thereafter it can run on renewables. As you then say manufacture is likely to use more renewable energy, so the question for the future then is:
Use some renewable energy to produce fossil fuelled vehicles or use a bit more renewable energy to produce EVs?

On current knowledge the answer looks like a no-brainer to me.
 

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I conclude, the article was probably written by the German diesel backed auto industry trying to slow down the switch to BEVs,, whilst increasing their use of nasty brown coal.
 

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Kia e-Niro MY20 64 kWh - Gravity Blue
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Again? And Again? And Again? And Again?????

Can we please stop rehashing the same old tired argument please? This has been debunked a gazillion times.
 

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Has anyone got full access to this article?


Apparently buying a new EV is the second most climate destructive thing anyone can do as its production emits 12Te of CO2.
I stopped reading their trash paper when their headline and article on the completely successful space X escape rocket test read something like "space X rocket explodes just after launch" and the text didn't say much more than that either. Together with a big pic of an explosion. Either an agenda to run or complete incompetence.

anyway as said this has been debunked so many times its not funny any more . Latest one only a couple weeks ago
And I haven't read that article but I see from the headline it's compared to the use of a house not an ICE car. Is that really what they are doing ?

the other thing that's intensely annoying to me is this is only CO2. What about all the noxious chemicals we all have to breathe in? Why Nothing on that? Estimated 3million people a year killed by those.
 

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Apologies for posting this in the wrong forum.

I hadn't read the whole article before posting, but I have now because I found you can get one article per month for free.

The main argument is that EVs only save 30% CO2 emissions over their life cycle compared with ICE vehicles and their manufacture will consume a large proportion of the carbon budget if all ICE vehicles are replaced with EVs.

The worst thing you can do environmentally, according to the article is to buy a new ICE vehicle.

I'm not sure about the numbers used. 12Te of CO2 for manufacture is higher than other figures I have read. They don't account for how this may fall in the future or the effect of more renewables on the CO2 emissions from power generation.
I don't believe this one iota, because whether you build an ice car or an ev the manufacturer is still using more or less the same machinery and I would think building engines and gearboxes being more complex to build would make more CO2 than a BEV car.As for mining the components for making the batteries I think drilling for oil and producing petrol and diesel would produce more CO2.
 

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As for mining the components for making the batteries I think drilling for oil and producing petrol and diesel would produce more CO2.
There are huge vagaries in accounting for the 'long tail' in the supply chain, which makes these sorts of analysis difficult.

However I expect the oil and car industry having over 100 years to refine production processes along with huge scale would go some way to explain the difference.
 

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Kia e-Niro MY20 64 kWh - Gravity Blue
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I'll just do it one more time.


This guy is THE guru in the Netherlands on electric mobility and his Twitter feed is one debunk fest after another. In the linked article he explains the 6 main points where FF lobbies willfully distort information to make it look like diesel or petrol cars are cleaner than EVs. Once you know these points, you can easily dissect the next so-called scientific paper and prove it's hogwash.
 

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Love all the lazy knee jerk replys.
So the scientific article is about vfm investment. Basicly if we invest in evs BEFORE we clean our grids it not only is a waste of money but makes the problem worse.
This probably applies to grids like Germany(where the main researcher is from) and Poland the likes UK and France are way past this point.

However the Independent article is written by an anti car "cycloepath" (I beleive the term is) jornalist who has rehashed the outcome and cherry picked info from the article to suit.

Remember people. No car is green, no matter how green. Just more greener.
 

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Kona PremSe64k 2020+bluelink +ohme
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I don't believe this one iota, because whether you build an ice car or an ev the manufacturer is still using more or less the same machinery and I would think building engines and gearboxes being more complex to build would make more CO2 than a BEV car.As for mining the components for making the batteries I think drilling for oil and producing petrol and diesel would produce more CO2.
Not to mention... So I won't...

Oh, go on then. Not to mention the cost of running companies in the before and after markets for ICE cars. All those exhausts that need replacing every few years...
 

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Has anyone got full access to this article?


Apparently buying a new EV is the second most climate destructive thing anyone can do as its production emits 12Te of CO2.
This has been debunked many a time, see link below.

The Carbon Footprint Of Tesla Manufacturing
 

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I wonder what the figures look like for the BMW i range, which is manufactured using renewables and recycled / recyclable materials....
 

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Kia e-Niro MY20 64 kWh - Gravity Blue
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So the scientific article is about vfm investment. Basicly if we invest in evs BEFORE we clean our grids it not only is a waste of money but makes the problem worse.
So basically you're too lazy to read the posted articles and yet you insist that buying an EV now makes no sense because the grid is dirty.

OK, TL;DR: even with the current dirty mix in e.g. Germany an electric car is already less polluting than an ICE car.

That's point 1. Point 2 is that EVs during their lifetime (let's say 15 years) will become greener with every installed wind turbine and every decommissioned coal central. An ICE will only become dirtier, since they lose efficiency and since extracting oil from the ground is an ever more complex process.
 

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So basically you're too lazy to read the posted articles and yet you insist that buying an EV now makes no sense because the grid is dirty.

OK, TL;DR: even with the current dirty mix in e.g. Germany an electric car is already less polluting than an ICE car.

That's point 1. Point 2 is that EVs during their lifetime (let's say 15 years) will become greener with every installed wind turbine and every decommissioned coal central. An ICE will only become dirtier, since they lose efficiency and since extracting oil from the ground is an ever more complex process.
Nope.
Quite the opposite.
Like I said lazy knee jerk reaction.

Re read what I said.

The core off the original article is high carbon countries should focas thier money on cleaning thier grid first.

The jornalist tried to make it into a hit piece that doesn't apply to the UK.
 
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