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Mechanical locking. For DC, you must have positive locking to prevent the connector being unplugged mid-charge.
Perhaps it might therefore be possible to replace the Type 2 socket on the car (ie 2018 Leaf and later) which sits adjacent to the CHAdeMO under the charge port cover, with a CCS Port so as to offer both DC standards. There would need to be protection to ensure that the DC connectors of the in used port, CCS or CHAdeMO, are not live I suspect that a defecated protocol controller could control a high current change over relay rather than relying on high current diodes. I believe that EV London Taxis support both standards.
 

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Only the car manufacturer can licence an adaptor and I really can't see Nissan doing it. Long term we will see CHAdeMO disappear in Europe, but chargers will probably be around for 10 years. All new chargers still have it - for now.
 

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All new chargers still have it - for now
I just can't see new Charging Network providers building out their networks with the added cost of supporting relatively slow (50kW max) CHAdeMO when they could have a cluster of 150 kW or even faster CCS rapid charger and sell more kWhs per day with fewer EV stalls as EV's go mainstream over the next 5 years. There are some good deals to be had on LEAF 2's as ex-demonstrators and I'm tempted but if CHAdeMO Rapid DC chargers are mainly to be found on Motorway routes and Networks such as Ionity are building on non-motorway routes the very routes which are more suited to the LEAF in any case, then the residuals will be depressed lower going forward and the LEAF will be only viable in the used market as a town car and daily commute. I, therefore, walked away from the deal.
 

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As above, the only network not including CHAdeMO is Ionity. Most want customers and there are a lot of those cars in UK, unlike perhaps mainland Europe.

I actually though Ionity were including CHAdeMO in UK as the government have made it clear that public charging must accommodate all cars. See below from Automated and Electric Vehicles Act (my bold). If they continue to install CCS only I can see secondary legislation being enacted.

"However, as the market develops and private investment increases and public support consequently decreases, legislation may be needed to ensure current levels of interoperability are not threatened. This will be achieved by mandating any necessary standards to achieve physical interoperability between every public charging point and every vehicle. Such a standard would be a minimum in that it would be open to each operator to continue to offer other types of support through inclusion of other connection mechanisms, should they wish to do so. Additionally, technology and innovation are developing quickly and wireless charging is becoming more widespread. The aim in making regulations under clause 9(3) would be not to stifle further innovation."
 

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At present, I think the Ionity pricing system and locations make Ionity of little interests of Leaf owners anyway.
 

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I just can't see new Charging Network providers building out their networks with the added cost of supporting relatively slow (50kW max) CHAdeMO when they could have a cluster of 150 kW or even faster CCS rapid charger and sell more kWhs per day with fewer EV stalls as EV's go mainstream over the next 5 years. There are some good deals to be had on LEAF 2's as ex-demonstrators and I'm tempted but if CHAdeMO Rapid DC chargers are mainly to be found on Motorway routes and Networks such as Ionity are building on non-motorway routes the very routes which are more suited to the LEAF in any case, then the residuals will be depressed lower going forward and the LEAF will be only viable in the used market as a town car and daily commute. I, therefore, walked away from the deal.
What a load of Tosh!

Chademo is NOT limited to 50kW!!!!!
 

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At present, I think the Ionity pricing system and locations make Ionity of little interests of Leaf owners anyway.
If you think about it, that doesn't really make much sense. Disregarding the fact that Leaf owners can't use Ionity anyway, I don't see why you have singled them out as the only ones who might take issue with their pricing system and locations. Do we use different roads and find things less affordable? If you prick us, do we not bleed?*

* If the quote doesn't mean much, you need to swot up on your Shakespeare. :)
 

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just can't see new Charging Network providers building out their networks with the added cost of supporting relatively slow (50kW max) CHAdeMO when they could have a cluster of 150 kW or even faster CCS rapid charger and sell more kWhs per day with fewer EV stalls as EV's go mainstream over the next 5 years
We are in an odd EV state, manufacturers are concentrating on high end, large battery cars with generally low volume.
In the next 10 years we will see more smaller cars with smaller batteries suitable for more people. They will need lower power chargers at shorter distances.

250 mile cars are executive range not shop floor worker range.
 

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If you think about it, that doesn't really make much sense. Disregarding the fact that Leaf owners can't use Ionity anyway, I don't see why you have singled them out as the only ones who might take issue with their pricing system and locations. Do we use different roads and find things less affordable? If you prick us, do we not bleed?*

* If the quote doesn't mean much, you need to swot up on your Shakespeare. :)
It's not just Leafs, it's slow charging cars, and all fast charging cars are CCS.
 

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As above, the only network not including CHAdeMO is Ionity. Most want customers and there are a lot of those cars in UK, unlike perhaps mainland Europe.

I actually though Ionity were including CHAdeMO in UK as the government have made it clear that public charging must accommodate all cars. See below from Automated and Electric Vehicles Act (my bold). If they continue to install CCS only I can see secondary legislation being enacted.

"However, as the market develops and private investment increases and public support consequently decreases, legislation may be needed to ensure current levels of interoperability are not threatened. This will be achieved by mandating any necessary standards to achieve physical interoperability between every public charging point and every vehicle. Such a standard would be a minimum in that it would be open to each operator to continue to offer other types of support through inclusion of other connection mechanisms, should they wish to do so. Additionally, technology and innovation are developing quickly and wireless charging is becoming more widespread. The aim in making regulations under clause 9(3) would be not to stifle further innovation."
Thanks for the clarification and reassurance regarding the availability of CHAdeMO for the present at least. I wonder if the words " every public charging point" might be intrpreted as " every public charging location/site" because there are charging locations where there are not all types of DC and or AC Rapid provided for. Zap Map report on their site today that "there are 2305 devices with a JEVS CHAdeMO 50kW connector, 1595 devices with a Type 2 Mennekes 43kW connector, 2058 with a CCS Combo 50kW connector" so CHAdeMO are charging connectors are still ahead of CCS but I suspect catching up fast.
 

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We are in an odd EV state, manufacturers are concentrating on high end, large battery cars with generally low volume.
In the next 10 years we will see more smaller cars with smaller batteries suitable for more people. They will need lower power chargers at shorter distances.

250 mile cars are executive range not shop floor worker range.
I'm no executive but I've my son and grandchildren living 260 miles away from me and many friends and family I visit who are in the region of 120 to 130 miles each way without the facility to fast charge at any of these locations and I don't feel I want to impose on them for me to charge while I'm there for a few hours after all with an ICE car who would visit a friend and ask them to contribute a gallon or two of fuel? No there is a real advantage to the longer-range vehicle, especially if like me you make these visits 15 to 16 times a year. Bear in mind also that motorway range is less on EV that combined (or official) range which is generally the reverse is true of an ICE care which is more economical on the motorway at a constant speed than stop-start urban driving which doesn't benefit from any regen.
 

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I just can't see new Charging Network providers building out their networks with the added cost of supporting relatively slow (50kW max) CHAdeMO
Several cars on the road now support 100kW CHAdeMO, including LEAF ePlus. Tesla's adapter is also 100kW.

Many "100kW" chargers are 200A maximum, so the real outputs are 200 * pack voltage or about 70kW.

Many 50kW chargers are 106-110A * pack voltage or 40-45kW peak depending on the charger and the car.

125158




 

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I actually though Ionity were including CHAdeMO in UK as the government have made it clear that public charging must accommodate all cars. See below from Automated and Electric Vehicles Act (my bold). If they continue to install CCS only I can see secondary legislation being enacted.
The text you quote is not from the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act itself; I'm guessing that you are quoting from this document prepared by the DfT to explain why they had asked for the powers in the Act. So it's meaningful as a general indication of Government thinking at that time, but not at the level of fine analysis of the wording - especially as it's two years old and we will shortly have a new government (with the DfT notoriously having revolving doors, even for governments of the same colour).

So yes, they have the power to make regulations to require CHAdeMO if they wanted to. However, we already have regulations covering this topic, and they require CCS or high-power AC only. Given that CCS has clearly won and very soon CHAdeMO-equipped cars will be a small minority, is there much of a public-interest case in doing anything about it?

CHAdeMO support isn't needed to promote sales of new vehicles, so the only reason to do it is to protect people who have already bought CHAdeMO-equipped vehicles (and so avoid the problem of EVs getting a reputation as risky to invest in). But those vehicles were bought when the charging networks were smaller than they are now (and much smaller than they will be in a year or two), so provided there's still a reasonable amount of CHAdeMO around then there isn't much of a problem. By the time the existing population of chargepoints is getting old and at risk of replacement by new models (which might not support CHAdeMO) the cars will also be old and the prospect of them being downgraded to just local-range commuting cars isn't the end of the world.

So I would be surprised to see any Government action on this, unless something unexpected happens (like Instavolt et al going round removing CHAdeMO from their existing sites).
 

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By the time the existing population of chargepoints is getting old and at risk of replacement by new models (which might not support CHAdeMO) the cars will also be old and the prospect of them being downgraded to just local-range commuting cars isn't the end of the world.
Agreed and by then they will have lost range, so really not suitable for long distance anyway.

I guess the bigger worry would be if EH (by some miracle) decided to sell out to Ionity soon and we lost all motorway CHAdeMO. I still think Dale will sell out at some point and could still get PR by providing power and co-branding "powered by Ecotricity".
 

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Discussion Starter #39
I just can't see new Charging Network providers building out their networks with the added cost of supporting relatively slow (50kW max) CHAdeMO when they could have a cluster of 150 kW or even faster CCS rapid charger and sell more kWhs per day with fewer EV stalls as EV's go mainstream over the next 5 years. There are some good deals to be had on LEAF 2's as ex-demonstrators and I'm tempted but if CHAdeMO Rapid DC chargers are mainly to be found on Motorway routes and Networks such as Ionity are building on non-motorway routes the very routes which are more suited to the LEAF in any case, then the residuals will be depressed lower going forward and the LEAF will be only viable in the used market as a town car and daily commute. I, therefore, walked away from the deal.
AFAIK there's no 50Kw limit on the ChaDeMo spec.
 

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AFAIK there's no 50Kw limit on the ChaDeMo spec.
Original chademo was designed for 62.5kw max. There is a chademo 2.0 specification which can support up to 400kw.

As for the original question yes it is technically possible but would be very difficult. CCS handshaking between the car and charge point is horrendously complex - it is a layered communication system with protocols, whereas chademo communication is much simpler.

If you fancy a quick read, there is a 130 page pdf here which covers the main points...

Cheers.
 
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