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It only becomes fake news if Nissan will fund the faster chargers.......
It's not true to say the only cars capable of fast* charging are CCS, is it though? The limitations of the charging network is a different thing.

* We need a new word since "fast" generally means 7kW. Super-rapid? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #43
CCS is streaming Chademo is beta max so it will work out in the end
Unless it turns out to be the other way around. Betamax was the more sophisticated technology, but lost out because the American Porn industry went for VHS. The lesson is - these choices are seldom dictated by logic.
 

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From the technical standpoint, the unnecessarily complex communications protocol use by CCS is a very obviously poor choice, clearly chosen by IT types rather than electrical engineers. It makes developing and debugging chargers and in-car charge controllers much more difficult, and hence more prone to all the compatibility issues we've seen. And that's just the Greenphy PLC transport layers, before you even start looking at the actual CCS protocol, which I'm told isn't very well specified, with areas open to interpretation.
It didn't really matter to end-users who won VHS vs. betamax, unfortunately the same can't be said for CCS, which we're stuck with now.
 

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They might need to inform Ecotricity on that, because CCS is effectively not supported on their chargers.
New Public rapid charging sites must have CCS as it is the agreed EU standard. Not quite so clear if replacing an existing unit though...
 

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New Public rapid charging sites must have CCS as it is the agreed EU standard. Not quite so clear if replacing an existing unit though...
The regulations say:

after 17th November 2017, where any of the infrastructure referred to in paragraph (2) is deployed or renewed the infrastructure operator must ensure that it complies with the technical specifications set out in the relevant paragraph of the Schedule specified in paragraph (3).

then in the definitions they have:

“renewed” in respect of a recharging point, refuelling point or shore-side electricity supply installation means the restoration or upgrade of the item’s operating capacity, excluding—
(a) work to replace or repair a single internal component or part as a result of wear and tear or the end of its operational life, or
(b) work to carry out repairs to the external structure (including connector sockets) without replacing that structure;

So it is fairly clear that if they replace the whole unit it has to have CCS or high-power AC (where "high power" is defined as greater than 22kW). Once you have one of those, you can additionally have CHAdeMO or any proprietary connector you like.

This means that most of Ecotricity's existing kit complies with the requirements because it has the high-power AC and so does not have to add CCS even if renewed.

However, availability of new equipment with CHAdeMO plus >22kW AC is probably limited.

Note that this is the UK implementation of the EU directive - other EU countries may have interpreted it slightly differently (and note also that unless specifically amended, these regulations in the UK remain in force regardless of what happens with Brexit).
 

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The regulations say:

after 17th November 2017, where any of the infrastructure referred to in paragraph (2) is deployed or renewed the infrastructure operator must ensure that it complies with the technical specifications set out in the relevant paragraph of the Schedule specified in paragraph (3).

then in the definitions they have:

“renewed” in respect of a recharging point, refuelling point or shore-side electricity supply installation means the restoration or upgrade of the item’s operating capacity, excluding—
(a) work to replace or repair a single internal component or part as a result of wear and tear or the end of its operational life, or
(b) work to carry out repairs to the external structure (including connector sockets) without replacing that structure;

So it is fairly clear that if they replace the whole unit it has to have CCS or high-power AC (where "high power" is defined as greater than 22kW). Once you have one of those, you can additionally have CHAdeMO or any proprietary connector you like.

This means that most of Ecotricity's existing kit complies with the requirements because it has the high-power AC and so does not have to add CCS even if renewed.

However, availability of new equipment with CHAdeMO plus >22kW AC is probably limited.

Note that this is the UK implementation of the EU directive - other EU countries may have interpreted it slightly differently (and note also that unless specifically amended, these regulations in the UK remain in force regardless of what happens with Brexit).
But in the technical specs section they state
(2) A direct current high power recharging point for electric vehicles must be equipped for interoperability purposes with at least connectors of the combined charging system ‘Combo 2’ as described in standard EN 62196-3(2).
So I read that as if they replace more than 1 single internal component, and they want to continue to offer DC charging at the post they must provide CCS... Moot anyway as even when they do it doesn't actually work.
 

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From the technical standpoint, the unnecessarily complex communications protocol use by CCS is a very obviously poor choice, clearly chosen by IT types rather than electrical engineers. It makes developing and debugging chargers and in-car charge controllers much more difficult, and hence more prone to all the compatibility issues we've seen...
Whatever the explanation for CCS unreliability, the frequent false-negative charge station reports posted by CCS BEV drivers posted at plugshare in the USA pose a real problem for CHAdeMO BEV drivers, particularly in regions where DC charge stations are few-and-far-between, and often consist of a single combined CHAdeMO/CCS charger.

I have learned to essentially ignore DC charger failure reports where a CCS BEV is involved, and have not been disappointed by an inoperative charger (yet).

Unfortunately, many posters do not report anything beyond a "failed" DC charger, leaving you to wonder if the charger is in fact, unavailable for CHAdeMO BEVs.

The story below would seem to blame the physical designs of GM/CCS plugs/ports/cables for many charge failures, but other CCS makes seem to have their own frequent reliability problems at DC chargers.

"Chevrolet Bolt EV and Spark EV Charging Port Issues and Corrections

The Chevy Bolt EV and Spark EV CCS charging ports have several issues. Some of these problems have quick and easy solutions; however, GM must physically redesign and update the CCS port on their future electric vehicles.


For many Chevy Spark EV and Chevy Bolt EV owners, DC fast charging can be a mixed experience. There's already a learning curve for new electric vehicle owners who are coming from the world of fueling internal combustion vehicles; however, there are additional issues that owners of these two electric vehicles must be aware of in order to have positive, successful DC fast charging experiences. The CCS port on the Chevy Spark EV might need to be physically modified, and the Chevy Bolt EV requires owners to provide additional support when using heavier, liquid-cooled CCS cables. For future electric vehicle models, GM needs to reconfigure and redesign their CCS ports in order to assure the best customer experience.
In this story, I will explain some of the problems with the Spark EV and Bolt EV charging ports, the consequences and issues that result from these problems, the corrections and workarounds that are available to owners, and the ways in which GM should redesign their CCS ports moving forward..."

 

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Whatever the explanation for CCS unreliability, the frequent false-negative charge station reports posted by CCS BEV drivers posted at plugshare in the USA pose a real problem for CHAdeMO BEV drivers, particularly in regions where DC charge stations are few-and-far-between, and often consist of a single combined CHAdeMO/CCS charger.
The story seems to relate to type 1 CCS which doesn't exist in europe (this forum is mainly used by people from europe). I believe the issues in europe are due to the handshake complexity - it is many layers of communication between the car and charge point and can be implemented differently by different car manufacturers and charge point operators. Since the comms is so different to the chademo standard it is also not that easy to retrofit, it is more than just an extra connector, it needs something to support the different comms.

Ta.
 

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But in the technical specs section they state
(2) A direct current high power recharging point for electric vehicles must be equipped for interoperability purposes with at least connectors of the combined charging system ‘Combo 2’ as described in standard EN 62196-3(2).
So I read that as if they replace more than 1 single internal component, and they want to continue to offer DC charging at the post they must provide CCS... Moot anyway as even when they do it doesn't actually work.
Your interpretation may well be correct; it does seem to be a slightly grey area given how they have worded it. The wording invites you to decide whether it is an AC or a DC point and then gives the requirement - so it doesn't make clear what happens to a recharging point that has both AC and DC: do you get to decide which is its primary function and then just follow those requirements, or is it simultaneously both types? A unit with only 22kW AC would clearly not be a high-power AC recharging point as it needs to be >22kW to be high power, so one of the 'triple' units with CHAdeMO/CCS/22kW-AC-socket would have to be classed as a DC high-power recharging point and the AC considered just a supplementary feature.

Some multi-head units allow you to use more than one head at once and so are no longer a single "recharging point". - the definition specifically ties it to charging a single car at once. This actually makes it more tricky to continue supporting CHAdeMO. For example, the ABB equipment used by Ionity for their CCS-only sites is modular, with the actual chargers separate from and shared between multiple posts with the charging cables (that can be used simultaneously) - so this risks each charging cable being considered a "recharging point" under the regulations and so the CHAdeMO ones aren't allowed.

Not to mention the B-word, but could this requirement change if/when(ever) we leave the EU?
As I mentioned above, this is UK legislation that (currently) implements the intent of an EU directive, so it remains in force if Brexit occurs. The government could change it at any time - even if we don't leave the EU. So the only difference is that before leaving the EU their changes have to remain within the broad outline set by the EU directive, and afterwards their changes could be to say anything they like. However, I can't see that amending these regulations would be a particularly high priority in a post-Brexit situation, nor that a UK-centric version would actually look much different to how they are now.

Certainly they could have been more supportive of CHAdeMO right now if there was any reason to do so.

(note that I'm taking care here not to express any view about Brexit in general, just confining my remarks to the impact on EV charging if it does or does not happen).
 
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